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Post by FredFan7 on Apr 3, 2014 10:08:11 GMT -5
Now that Ron Winter has retired (http://www.footballzebras.com/2014/04/03/10548/), there are two openings at referee.
Who do you think will be appointed referees this fall?
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Post by mike on Apr 3, 2014 12:42:01 GMT -5
My guesses - Craig Wrolstad and Ron Torbert
Just also wanted to make a correction to Ben's post - Scott Green was the BJ that day not the SJ
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Post by FredFan7 on Apr 3, 2014 12:54:04 GMT -5
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Post by mike on Apr 3, 2014 13:08:21 GMT -5
In past years I liked Scott Helverson and John Hussey, but since other officials have auditioned at Referee since both of them did and both Wrolstad and Torbert do have requisite NFL experience (versus what happened with Clete Blakeman which necessitated Don Carey serving as a Referee for one season) I went with Wrolstad and Torbert
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Post by cj on Apr 3, 2014 19:50:57 GMT -5
So one gets the feeling that Winters did not leave voluntarily. The Ben Dreith treatment? Of course he has to be disappointed he never got to work the NFL Championship game.
BTW there is one error in the story. While we've discussed that last play of the 49er-Giants game to death, it has never been shown that Green did not make the call because he thought the Giants receiver was ineligible. My own gut feeling is he didn't see it as he was lined up under the goal posts to rule on the potential field goal and the 49er defender was between him and the Giants receiver shielding him from seeing the contact. Just to point out Periera changed positioning of officials on field goal attempts the following week. But leaving that aside, the Giants WERE called for ineligible down field on one of the receivers on the other side. The article implies that this wsn't noted till the next day. Absolutely not true. Winters announced that penalty and then said the game was over.
Not a big deal.
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Post by zebrablog on Apr 3, 2014 23:40:24 GMT -5
That Giants-49ers play comes up from time to time, and it is the hardest one to condense without distorting some element of the story.
I did find the NFL statement. There are some items that need to be tightened up, such as the ineligible penalty was properly called, according to the statement. I can see Green might have been screened, but there is a shot that shows Rosenbaum has a clear look at it. It really should have a bit more to explain.
I could summarize Iran-Contra in less words and more accurately.
Thanks for the correction.
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Post by bulldog6878 on Apr 6, 2014 15:44:52 GMT -5
So one gets the feeling that Winters did not leave voluntarily. The Ben Dreith treatment? Of course he has to be disappointed he never got to work the NFL Championship game. BTW there is one error in the story. While we've discussed that last play of the 49er-Giants game to death, it has never been shown that Green did not make the call because he thought the Giants receiver was ineligible. My own gut feeling is he didn't see it as he was lined up under the goal posts to rule on the potential field goal and the 49er defender was between him and the Giants receiver shielding him from seeing the contact. Just to point out Periera changed positioning of officials on field goal attempts the following week. But leaving that aside, the Giants WERE called for ineligible down field on one of the receivers on the other side. The article implies that this wsn't noted till the next day. Absolutely not true. Winters announced that penalty and then said the game was over. Not a big deal. explain to me what The Ben Dreith Treatment means. Also how is Ron winters being forced to retire if I read that right? |
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Post by zebrablog on Apr 6, 2014 16:42:22 GMT -5
Dreith was asked to retire before he felt he was ready. He alleged age discrimination and the league settled the lawsuit with Dreith.
The basis for his age discrimination suit was that he was grading better than younger officials.
I have nothing to back this up other than pure speculation, but there must have been some offer by the league that allowed this to happen without the union taking up a case against the league.
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Post by cj on Apr 6, 2014 18:23:11 GMT -5
Actually, they did ask him to retire and he refused. So they busted him, moved him from referee to line judge. Really humiliating for a guy like Dreith. He served I believe one season as a line judge and then retired and filed the law suit zebrablog alluded to above. Gary Lane was also afforded the same treatment by Seeman. Another referee, Ron Blum, was also demoted although it was more or less something he requested. In the same manner, later on, Phil Lucket after the poor treatment he was given after two glaring national incidents, neither of which were his fault, requested being relieved of referee duties and went back to being a back judge.
It must have been rough for which ever crews Lane and Dreith were demoted to for the referee to work with them although both did not cause any problems the year they served in the lesser positon. I would suppose the union could not get involved as neither was really "fired" although I am sure Seeman believed neither would accept the humiliaton of being dumped as referees. Maybe they pulled the same thing on Winters?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2014 19:01:35 GMT -5
Dreith and Fred Wyant were moved from R to LJ the year before Jerry Seeman took over. Jerry Seeman was a tough customer, to be sure, but so was Mike Pereira with easing officials out. I think the union has a little more teeth now, but the heads of the officiating department still have great sway.
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Post by mike on Apr 6, 2014 19:49:47 GMT -5
Actually, they did ask him to retire and he refused. So they busted him, moved him from referee to line judge. Really humiliating for a guy like Dreith. He served I believe one season as a line judge and then retired and filed the law suit zebrablog alluded to above. Gary Lane was also afforded the same treatment by Seeman. Another referee, Ron Blum, was also demoted although it was more or less something he requested. In the same manner, later on, Phil Lucket after the poor treatment he was given after two glaring national incidents, neither of which were his fault, requested being relieved of referee duties and went back to being a back judge. It must have been rough for which ever crews Lane and Dreith were demoted to for the referee to work with them although both did not cause any problems the year they served in the lesser positon. I would suppose the union could not get involved as neither was really "fired" although I am sure Seeman believed neither would accept the humiliaton of being dumped as referees. Maybe they pulled the same thing on Winters? Ron Blum's return to LJ was not truly "voluntary." He had slipped noticeably at R and was offered the option to retire or work out his years as a LJ. I believe the NFL did the same with Tom White (retire or move back to HL) |
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Post by cj on Apr 6, 2014 20:00:44 GMT -5
Ron Blum's biggest moment of infamy was in a playoff game with the Steelers. He got into a conversation with Bill Cowher on a play and the mike picked up Cowher asking him if something could be reviewed. Blum's answer was he didn't know. Cowher's response was you better check. Blum should have stuck to golf anyway as his other occupation listed in his NFL bio was professional golfer.
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Post by mike on Apr 6, 2014 20:16:19 GMT -5
cj do not forget the Snowball game between Chargers and Giants
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Post by FredFan7 on Apr 6, 2014 21:02:23 GMT -5
Ron Blum's biggest moment of infamy was in a playoff game with the Steelers. He got into a conversation with Bill Cowher on a play and the mike picked up Cowher asking him if something could be reviewed. Blum's answer was he didn't know. Cowher's response was you better check. Blum should have stuck to golf anyway as his other occupation listed in his NFL bio was professional golfer. Blum was a two-time Super Bowl LJ and was consistently in the championship round when not in the big one. He could have easily gone to a few more Super Bowls had he stayed at LJ, but the allure of the white hat was too much to pass up (it would be hard for anyone to pass up). The only official I know of who declined referee consideration was Jerry Bergman, Sr. He said he enjoyed the action of the sidelines and wanted to stay there, even though Mark Duncan and Art McNally broached the subject with him. |
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Post by FredFan7 on Apr 6, 2014 21:06:08 GMT -5
Dreith and Fred Wyant were moved from R to LJ the year before Jerry Seeman took over. Jerry Seeman was a tough customer, to be sure, but so was Mike Pereira with easing officials out. I think the union has a little more teeth now, but the heads of the officiating department still have great sway. Dreith and Wyant were moved to LJ to make room for Gerald Austin and Tom White to be referee. Wyant actually was awarded a playoff game at LJ under McNally. Dreith graded low that year and was terminated by McNally. (Dreith was always a back judge or referee, his last season was the only one at LJ) Once Seeman came on board, he (according to Wyant) ran him off with a "playoffs or else" mandate. Not the thread to break that Wyant nugget down, but it he had quite the take on it. Lane was moved back to SJ and actually was assigned to Super Bowl XXXIII as a SJ. I'm sure the emotions were quite high when Seeman called him to tell him that news. Lane was forced to retire due to a heart ailment and, sadly, passed away at age 60. |
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