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Post by FredFan7 on Aug 13, 2012 17:50:04 GMT -5
bit.ly/NyGphSThe NFL is really putting the screws to the NFLRA. This lockout will damage NFL-NFLRA relations for many years.
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Post by mike on Aug 13, 2012 18:37:30 GMT -5
In some sense this is a bargaining position. Also nobody can really expect the NFL to say "these replacement officials are crap and we are scared sh*tless about having them officiate during the regular season when games actually mean something." Both sides have to give, but I will say the statements put out by the NFLRA are not earning them favors when they harp about salary (which they compare to full time officials even though they want to be part time), job security (even though in the past decade we can probably count on one hand the number of officials fired or demoted due to job performance even though your spreadsheets do show that some officials are clearly not playoff regulars despite the fact that, unless the rookies were all ranked poorly, the top 12-13 at a position are generally getting an on field assignment), and nitpicking the faults of the replacements (even though they are not wrong as my review of Giants/Jaguars showed, we can just as easily nitpick poor games by NFLRA members like Bill Leavy in the Divisional round last season)
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Post by sullim4 on Aug 13, 2012 19:45:39 GMT -5
As Mike said, this is all a game of chicken. I tend to think the NFL is in the more precarious position since fans/teams/Vegas will all go berzerk if regular season games are decided by an incorrect call.
Personally I was shocked at how poor the performance of some of the replacements was this past weekend. Some of the mistakes made, particularly the touchback call, were inexcusable at the JV high school level, let alone the NFL.
That being said, it was pretty bush league of the NFLRA to point out their mistakes. Let the substandard performance of the replacements do the talking for you!
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Post by cj on Aug 13, 2012 19:45:52 GMT -5
What we can't forget is this board is made up with a lot of officials who look up to the NFL officials as role models for what they do which is fine and quite understandable. The average Joe in the street probably doesn't know the difference between a field judge and a back judge and could care less unless the calls go against his team. They don't care about the mechanics. They wouldn't know a defensive hold from a defensive pass interference. They only care that the games are being played and look at the officials as a necessary evil and it doesn't matter to them who the officials are. There will be little or no pressure brought to bear on the NFL. Are the games being played? Yes. Are calls being made? Yes. Unless something egregeously bad occurs such as ruling a what should be a fumble as an incomplete pass and then discovering the replay cannot fix it, such a thing could never happen to a true NFL official like Ed Hochulhi (I hope you see the irony in that statement) it almost seems the NFL is prepared to go to the mat and I'm not sure the regular officials can win this one.
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Post by becky10 on Aug 13, 2012 20:03:13 GMT -5
1) The league would like game officials to become full-time employees of the league. Officials have traditionally been part-time employees, with 90 percent of the group working other jobs unrelated to football. Referees are unwilling to give up that income. >>>>>>>>> WOW.. I thought the Full Time was not even considered in this yr of contract negotiations..... 2) The NFL wants to add three additional officiating crews. The goal would to give officals added rest and the league more options. The locked-out officials are opposed to increasing their roster. >>>>>> OMG.... did not know they wanted to add 3 more Officiating crews.... I am thinking we will not see the Regular Zebras this yr.. grrrrrrrrrr    |
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Post by FredFan7 on Aug 13, 2012 20:12:44 GMT -5
1) The league would like game officials to become full-time employees of the league. Officials have traditionally been part-time employees, with 90 percent of the group working other jobs unrelated to football. Referees are unwilling to give up that income. >>>>>>>>> WOW.. I thought the Full Time was not even considered in this yr of contract negotiations..... 2) The NFL wants to add three additional officiating crews. The goal would to give officals added rest and the league more options. The locked-out officials are opposed to increasing their roster. >>>>>> OMG.... did not know they wanted to add 3 more Officiating crews.... I am thinking we will not see the Regular Zebras this yr.. grrrrrrrrrr Link to Becky's info: www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000049099/article/report-replacement-refs-may-be-carried-into-week-1?campaign=Twitter_atl |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2012 21:54:05 GMT -5
I am going to take the side of the league on the full time issue. I think it is a good thing to tell an official to give up his full time job IF the money he makes officiating makes up for that income loss. I have a full time job and a side job and I can understand my boss telling me to give up one or the other. You don't want an official to be distracted by his job before a big game and other outside factors that could distract him from his time spent on officiating duties.
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Post by BTFS Admin on Aug 13, 2012 22:44:28 GMT -5
I think the league is really pushing the full-time idea and younger officials movement (the NFL is the only league where new officials start when they are 40+ years old), so these replacements will be around to stay for a while I'm afraid.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2012 23:14:18 GMT -5
Then grandfather the fulltime in. Or if some officials are unemployed outside of officiating, start there.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2012 5:34:53 GMT -5
The NFLRA may not win this one ( as suggested by cj ) because games are being played and calls are being made. This is due to the scabs working to benefit their own egos only. Without scabs, no calls, no games; negotiations in good faith.
In the words of Seinfeld; "The whole system is breaking down". This WILL affect all of us sooner or later.
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Post by cj on Aug 14, 2012 5:55:06 GMT -5
I respectfully disagree about full time officials. You can't compare the NFL with other leagues because games are only played once a week as compared to the other 3 major sports. What are they going to do during the week that they aren't doing now? I assume all do plenty of film study during the week, communicate withother members of the crew (you know we live in the 21st century where instant communicaton via conference calls is very easy to accomplish). It isn't as if there are even 2 games a week which might make the idea plausible. Instead of comparing to the other 3 major sports in North America, perhaps the comparisxon might be the Barclay's Premiere League in real football in England. Is Howard Webb a full time employee? (well agian they have 2 games a week and many of the officials work other games and international tournaments). How about other leagues. Was the referee who screwed the United States in the world cup by calling a non existant penalty in 2006, Marcus Merk I think his name is, a practicing dentist?
I just don't see how making the NFL officials full time will improve officiating. Sorry to disagree.
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Post by mike on Aug 14, 2012 6:27:43 GMT -5
cj I do think you are going to see that demand made as long as NFLRA keeps insisting on pay comparable to other leagues
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2012 7:38:49 GMT -5
Some officials then might have to choose between their job and being an official. The 120 officials they have as regulars are all good, but one day each will end up being replaced through retirement. No official is above the rules and most of them are really good, but at one point they had to start through the ranks like every non-scab and so I am for full-time officials. You dont want an official having a big law case or marketing meeting or something the week of a game or of a training clinic.
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Post by FredFan7 on Aug 14, 2012 9:44:40 GMT -5
Some officials then might have to choose between their job and being an official. The 120 officials they have as regulars are all good, but one day each will end up being replaced through retirement. No official is above the rules and most of them are really good, but at one point they had to start through the ranks like every non-scab and so I am for full-time officials. You dont want an official having a big law case or marketing meeting or something the week of a game or of a training clinic. The negotiations taking place are life-changing for the officials. Mike Carey owns his own business and is most-likely worth seven-figures. Asking him to divest of a business that he owns and started out of his own garage is asking quite a lot. Many of the other officials are either independently wealthy or making a VERY good living. I agree with the idea of grandfathering new hires in as full time and I believe within 10 years the entire roster will be full-time. |
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Post by mike on Aug 14, 2012 10:31:52 GMT -5
Some sort of grandfathering would have to be part of the package because the turnover of experienced officials like Mike Carey, Ed Hochuli, or even younger officials like Clete Blakeman and John Parry would be too great. I do not agree with Fred that in 10 years under this grandfathering the league will be entirely full time as you have a number of young officials who have potentially lucrative careers outside of officiating. That being said I could definitely see some of those officials using this contract to plan for such an eventuality to be able to continue everything
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