|
|
Post by FredFan7 on Sept 11, 2012 16:00:04 GMT -5
Sounds more and more like the NFL could care less if the NFLRA members ever worked another down. bit.ly/U6FB6w |
|
|
|
Post by mike on Sept 11, 2012 16:19:58 GMT -5
I did not get that at all from this article and PFT has been generally pro-NFLRA throughout the process. Both sides have their P.R. positions and it could just as well be said the NFLRA could not care less about anything other than getting paid. As has been said repeatedly, and this article points out yet again, the NFLRA is never going to win a P.R. battle unless the replacement officials find a totally new way to screw up because even calling an obvious INT an incomplete pass Steve Wilson did the same in the first game at "Jerry World" or just about any blunder you can point to something Tom White did over the years. I think it would be helpful to point out from the NFLRA standpoint when the NFL brings up an error made by a fired official that the official was terminated for poor performance which would give more credence to their bargaining position that bad calls have consequences for officials. Right now the casual fan looks at some atrocious calls like Bill Leavy's performance last postseason, Jerome Boger's call of the runner giving himself up, etc. and wonders whether there is any accountability
|
|
|
|
Post by JugglingReferee on Sept 11, 2012 19:03:03 GMT -5
I'm curious to know in the same precision into the past of the replacements was done as with the RA guys.
|
|
|
|
Post by FredFan7 on Sept 11, 2012 19:26:26 GMT -5
The NFL just poo-poos any and all major errors like it's nothing major when it is. I would be curious about that happened to the regulars who granted a 4th timeout. I doubt it was poo-pooed. I bet that crew didn't get a playoff game and got a major butt-chewing from Pereira. Officials have been docked a game's paycheck for major administrative errors.
Today? We get basically, "Oh well, yes, it was an error, but nothing we haven't seen before."
Seems like the NFL is trying to prove that you can pull any schlub off any field in America and have him call and NFL game as good as those who've devoted a majority of their adult lives to perfecting their craft.
It is disheartening. It makes me sad. It seems like the NFL wants to say, "See NFLRA? Our schlubs can do it. Now cower before us, take our offer without negotiation, and get your schlubby butts back out on the field. And don't make a mistake or we'll fire you."
|
|
|
|
Post by FredFan7 on Sept 11, 2012 19:28:32 GMT -5
And, believe it or not, I'm from a non-union family who usually sides with management on issues.....  |
|
|
|
Post by cj on Sept 11, 2012 19:51:12 GMT -5
The NFL just poo-poos any and all major errors like it's nothing major when it is. I would be curious about that happened to the regulars who granted a 4th timeout. I doubt it was poo-pooed. I bet that crew didn't get a playoff game and got a major butt-chewing from Pereira. Officials have been docked a game's paycheck for major administrative errors. Today? We get basically, "Oh well, yes, it was an error, but nothing we haven't seen before." Seems like the NFL is trying to prove that you can pull any schlub off any field in America and have him call and NFL game as good as those who've devoted a majority of their adult lives to perfecting their craft. It is disheartening. It makes me sad. It seems like the NFL wants to say, "See NFLRA? Our schlubs can do it. Now cower before us, take our offer without negotiation, and get your schlubby butts back out on the field. And don't make a mistake or we'll fire you." Fred, fred...I don't think the NFL expects the scabs to be as good as the regulars. There are 2 aspects to officiating in football I think. One is applying the rules on judgment calls. Is the contact on the receiver down field severe enough to have disrupted his avbility to complete the pass. That will always be subjective and different people can look at that kind of play and come up with different decisions. Same thing goes for holding. Sure there is some degree of holding on every play. The judgment the official has to make was the hold disruptive to the ability to make the play. It's not black or white. Encroachment, false start that sort of thing is black or white. They haven't been all that bad on those things no matter how much so many here who consider the regular officials their heroes want them to fail. The NFL, and I alluded to this elsewhere, has supposedly put into place some safe guards to assist these guys with the difference in rules affecting the administration of the game. Here is where, for example, I blame both the league supervisor and the replay official for the situation in Arizona-Seattle which easily could have been and should have been corrected. Where were they? The League claims they are supposed to assist. The same goes for the replays. From what I've read, the replay official and the referee do discuss what they're looking at while the ref is under the hood. If the play in the Baltimore game on replay should have been ruled incomplete, then I fault the replay official for not pointing out the difference in the NFL interpretation of a catch vs. Division II or III. Yes it takes time for everybody to get up on all the rules but a newbie coming on a crew has everybody else to help them out and replay to correct many obvious errors. Obviously, management has decided they can live with this. Not one of the errors this weekend ultimately affected the outcome of any of the games and that's really what the fans care about. The fans, pal, are not officials and don't know the difference between a field judge and an umpire or have no idea of what each official does on a play. Having said all that, the officials may already have lost. It;s repetitive, I know although in different threads. It is obvious to me from what I've read and listened to that the pension issue, at least on management's part, is not negotiable. Everything else can probably be worked through pretty quickly. Like it or not, the officials are going to have to give on the pension issue or apparently the league is willing to allow the replacements to work the whole season and if we go back to baseball fifteen years ago, yes I know it was the threat of a strike not a lockout, many of the seniors umpires never stepped on the field again and others took more than a decade to get their jobs back. It could come to that. |
|
|
|
Post by becky10 on Sept 11, 2012 22:01:34 GMT -5
The NFL just poo-poos any and all major errors like it's nothing major when it is. I would be curious about that happened to the regulars who granted a 4th timeout. I doubt it was poo-pooed. I bet that crew didn't get a playoff game and got a major butt-chewing from Pereira. Officials have been docked a game's paycheck for major administrative errors. Today? We get basically, "Oh well, yes, it was an error, but nothing we haven't seen before." Seems like the NFL is trying to prove that you can pull any schlub off any field in America and have him call and NFL game as good as those who've devoted a majority of their adult lives to perfecting their craft. It is disheartening. It makes me sad. It seems like the NFL wants to say, "See NFLRA? Our schlubs can do it. Now cower before us, take our offer without negotiation, and get your schlubby butts back out on the field. And don't make a mistake or we'll fire you." FINALLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Thank u FF7!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I agree..... the NFL is just saying.. oh well... there is a HUGE MISTAKE in Several games..... Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr Makes me angry!!!!!!!!!!!!!  I know I am just one person........... I am NOT watching any more NFL games/spending any more $$$$$ till Real Referees are back!!!! They paid their dues...... the Scabs/Replacements have NOT.... they do NOT deserve being in the NFL.... |
|
|
|
Post by hank on Sept 11, 2012 22:18:06 GMT -5
The greatest challenge in today's game and Roger Goodell's term as a leader is undoubtedly the health and safety of the players. It is criminal that the importance of this human right is subject to the league, the owners, and the television networks pursuit to make a profit.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2012 22:48:09 GMT -5
Fred, Becky, and Hank...I agree completely!
|
|
|
|
Post by cj on Sept 12, 2012 1:09:59 GMT -5
The greatest challenge in today's game and Roger Goodell's term as a leader is undoubtedly the health and safety of the players. It is criminal that the importance of this human right is subject to the league, the owners, and the television networks pursuit to make a profit. Hank....where have they missed calls regarding safety issues. I've seen a few blows to the head properly called rtp. We have arguments here all the time whether an rtp call should or shouldn't have been made. Horsecollar tackles are missed all the time too and we have the same arguments. I'll ask you, in all due respect and not trying to be obnoxeous, where is it your money involved? Ultimately the league has to put up the bucks and they've decided, whether you or I like it or not, that they are not giving in on certain issues which I believe first and foremost are the pensions. The officials are just as reponsible for this lock out by saying no way Roger on that and we'll show you that the league needs us and we're an integral part of the game, just as important as the players. Personally, I might agree with the officials completely. But if I were an official, and once again think of the air traffic controllers under Ronnie R. Maybe you're not old enough to remember that. The air traffic controllers told the world they were so important and the whole ATC system would implode without them Good old Ronnie gave the one final warning. Come back or be terminated. Those that didn't were. And nobody came riding to their defense. They never returned no they never returned but their fate is far from unknown. Up till now the games have not been chaotic. Sure there have been mistakes. In my opinin, almost all the mistakes were in administering some of the rules like the to in the Seattle game or the last play of the Oakland game but I blame the league supervisors, as did Peter King in his column more so, who we're told were put in place not to substitute their judgment for the on field officials but not correcting these mistakes, both of which were easy to correct. For the most part I've seen officials hustling to the ball, properly spotting the ball, bgetting the RTP's. Missing some calls now and then like holding but on this board every weekend we listen to memb ers of the board pointing out missed holding calls and the like or ticky tac k dpi or missed illegal blocks in the back on kick returns (hell one of the best games I remember watching was about a decade agao when the Jets ran the opening kickoff of overtime back for a winning touchdown and several observers pointed to a missed block in the back which could plainlyh be seen. These things happen, have always happened and will continue to happen no matter who is officiating. Are they less likely to happen with the regular guys? Of course. But the NFL has made it quite clear they want to establish that it is they who control the officials not the officials who control them. And whether any of the people here like it or not, that is the reality of the situation. |
|
|
|
Post by hank on Sept 12, 2012 3:18:52 GMT -5
cj,
When you ask a question do you typically ignore the response, assume an answer you think you will hear, and rebut that answer?
I ask because you asked me, "Hank....where have they missed calls regarding safety issues."
Please reread my statement and let me know if you remain confused. I never said a word about missed calls, officials, replacement officials, or Reagan. My intent was not to imply or be vague, but rather, to recognize and assert the conscious avarice and misappropriation of priorities by the league, the owners, and the television networks.
Also, I do not know what you meant when you asked, "where is it your money involved?"
|
|
|
|
Post by cj on Sept 12, 2012 5:43:00 GMT -5
cj, When you ask a question do you typically ignore the response, assume an answer you think you will hear, and rebut that answer? I ask because you asked me, "Hank....where have they missed calls regarding safety issues." Please reread my statement and let me know if you remain confused. I never said a word about missed calls, officials, replacement officials, or Reagan. My intent was not to imply or be vague, but rather, to recognize and assert the conscious avarice and misappropriation of priorities by the league, the owners, and the television networks. Also, I do not know what you meant when you asked, "where is it your money involved?" Hank....you brought up the player safety issue and I expanded on that...in reading it more carefully now I agree you simply referred to the greatest challenge in dealing with the injury problem on the part of Goodell and you did not attribute that to the scabs. So in that sense, I sincerely apologize but the response is in a thread regarding the progress or lack thereof in the negotiations between the league and the union representing its officials. And that has been the claim of some others that the use of scabs would compromise player safety so I went into that issue. Again, please forgive me and let me make it clear to you and everybody else. I know my feelings on this are different than many here as I am not necessarily an official geek (not that everybody here is). BUT THERE IS NOTHING PERSONAL IN ANY RESPONSE I GIVE. I have always trried to say everybody has a right to their opinion. So....I accept your criticism and hope that's the end of it. |
|
|
|
Post by hank on Sept 12, 2012 10:44:03 GMT -5
cj,
I appreciate your candor. All is good.
|
|
|
|
Post by JAYJAYSTRIPES on Sept 12, 2012 13:22:14 GMT -5
Let me throw this out for discussion: I'll be devil's Advocate!
The majority of the group of 120 who are locked out are working professionals, there are some like Ron Winter who has retired after 38 years as a college professor, and I would venture to say the of the rest, they are pretty well set up for retirement. Why then do these guys have to dig in their heels on the retirement issue if they already are taken care of in their "day jobs'?
Aren't they trying to "gild the lily"...cut the nonsense guys and get back to work before this whole season becomes one big disaster.
Lord Roger doesn't give a hoot about anything but covering his backside and protecting himself and his cronies in the front office...the owners as long as their palms are getting greased could care less either...the fans, they are clueless.
My rant for this time.
|
|
|
|
Post by becky10 on Sept 12, 2012 16:49:11 GMT -5
|
|
