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Post by hank on Sept 11, 2012 22:22:40 GMT -5
I see that there have been ratings of crews. Here is the original post for those who are interested in objective measures to determine the effectiveness of the replacement officials.
FredFan7,
I am pleased that you took my suggestion last year and created a grading rubric for the site - thank you!. If you are willing to consider another suggestion that would be great. Actually two.
1: I suggest that the rubric becomes a 4-point rubric, 4 being the highest mark and 0 being the lowest. (see bold print below) and any grade between a full point is given a decimal score (i.e., 3.7).
2: It would also be wonderful, now that you have admin privileges, if you could set up a grid/table/spreadsheet that allows members to score each game they watch by posting them and compare/contrast them against other members. Once this is set up an average (or multiple types of averages) can be determined since every grade is a number grade that has true value rather than a letter grade.
If you wish to tweak this that is cool too, for example you can follow the IOC scale and drop the highest and lowest and marks to determine the BTFS crews of the week or year or whatever.
These are just thoughts on the eve of another great year of weekends in the NFL that will help our site become more objective and systematic in our discussion of these great crews and their work.
Thus, I propose:
(4): an official or crew did an outstanding job. They were presented with a very tough game, tough calls, and a very tough situation and rose to the occasion and got it right and the flow of the game was the better for them being there that day.
(3): The crew did a solid job, had good mechanics, had minimal errors in judgment calls, kept the game moving, didn't chop up the flow.
(2): The crew or official(s) made mistakes in judgment, chopped up the game flow, didn't communicate very well, and they helped bog the game down.
(1): The crew or official had several errors, showed bad mechanics over the span of the game, were indecisive in making rulings and enforcing penalties, and really bogged the game down.
(0): The crew mis-applied a rule, made a grievous timing error, missed a down, failed to administrate the game properly, or did such an irresponsible job on the field that the game turned into a travesty.
Thank you for your considerations,
Hank
ps. you may have noticed I also dropped the subjective language from the original rubric.
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Post by boonevol on Sept 12, 2012 17:31:39 GMT -5
How can you possibly grade officials using t.v broadcast coverage as your video source? Or are some of you springing for the video on the NFL Replay site?
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Post by FredFan7 on Sept 12, 2012 18:01:06 GMT -5
Our grading is purely subjective.
I would be very hard pressed to do it right during the lockout. Do we grade on a replacement scale or a regular scale? The Denver and Arizona crews get a 0 for a major rule misapplication, and the Green Bay and Oakland crews get a 1 for a very below average officiated game that one expects at the NFL level. Now, on a replacement scale, the GB crew gets a 2 and the SNF crew gets a 3.5.
I'm deciding to hold off on my grading until the regulars are back.
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Post by tuckerewell on Sept 16, 2012 3:16:52 GMT -5
A grade is a grade, regardless of who receives it. There should be no asterisks involved in determining how well a job is done.
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Post by mike on Sept 16, 2012 5:24:31 GMT -5
Fred actually polled on this very subject and it was decided not to grade the replacements as too many people said that their perception of the replacements as scabs would affect the grading
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Post by cj on Sept 16, 2012 9:12:54 GMT -5
As soon as one side comes to its senses, this lockout will be over and the scabs and the scabess will be gone so what's the sense of grading them? We know they won't be as good as the regulars, nobody is questioning that (if they were that would mean we could just dump the regulars and saves quite a bit of oney). What should be discussed is just how much the performance of a crew might help bring the lockout to a close one way or the other. If enough crews are bad enough, the league will have to cave. If the replacements are fair (in the sense of eh, not awful but not really good) something will have to give for this to be over. Nothing we say here will have any affect on one party or the other. Personally, I think the performance of the scabs and scabess while nowhere near as good as we would have had with the regulars has not been bad enough to cause the league to cave. And the longer it goes on, the more experience the scabs will gain and the administrative erros will disappear (I doubt extremely that from nhow on any crew will blow it on the time out rule in the last 2 minutes) and exert more pressure on the regulars.
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Post by tuckerewell on Sept 16, 2012 18:56:49 GMT -5
No matter how good or bad the replacements do, they have pretty much everyone against them; media, players, union democrats, you name it. The replacements are there because the regular officials aren't there. Why are they everyone's scapegoat? Let them try to do their job while we wait for the regulars to come to their senses. These are well paid men who work part time, get to travel, be part of a great game and have some fun doing it. The NFL having more crews makes sense. Why would any business want scheduling limitations? Especially a business as big as the NFL. When managing employees, some simply don't do their job well. Should a member of a crew who has performance and personal issues that affect his work be locked in to a full season schedule without the possibility of the NFL replacing him? Look what happened last year when Corrente and Green, amongst others, went down. Regarding pension, the rest of the NFL is already off of it. Even if they were to give it up in negotiations, it wouldn't disappear. Existing officials would possibly be grandfathered and allowed to continue their pension or if pensions were stopped immediately, officials would still ave pension options for existing monies. They could even control their own pension account and roll it over to an IRA and probably outperform the NFLs pension managers (who are managing less and less) and generate an even better pension for themselves. I can't see how this issue is such a hang up. I disagree with many things the NFL does, but for it to be hamstrung in that it is limited in hiring, scheduling, crew selection and things like that, especially by part time employees, is ridiculous.
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Post by becky10 on Sept 16, 2012 19:28:46 GMT -5
No matter how good or bad the replacements do, they have pretty much everyone against them; media, players, union democrats, you name it. The replacements are there because the regular officials aren't there. Why are they everyone's scapegoat? Let them try to do their job while we wait for the regulars to come to their senses. These are well paid men who work part time, get to travel, be part of a great game and have some fun doing it. The NFL having more crews makes sense. Why would any business want scheduling limitations? Especially a business as big as the NFL. When managing employees, some simply don't do their job well. Should a member of a crew who has performance and personal issues that affect his work be locked in to a full season schedule without the possibility of the NFL replacing him? Look what happened last year when Corrente and Green, amongst others, went down. Regarding pension, the rest of the NFL is already off of it. Even if they were to give it up in negotiations, it wouldn't disappear. Existing officials would possibly be grandfathered and allowed to continue their pension or if pensions were stopped immediately, officials would still ave pension options for existing monies. They could even control their own pension account and roll it over to an IRA and probably outperform the NFLs pension managers (who are managing less and less) and generate an even better pension for themselves. I can't see how this issue is such a hang up. I disagree with many things the NFL does, but for it to be hamstrung in that it is limited in hiring, scheduling, crew selection and things like that, especially by part time employees, is ridiculous. I am sorry... but the Replacement Officials are not qualified to officiate in the NFL.... Just like being an Executive for American Airlines, Fast Food, Physician.... if they were on strike.. u would not want an Unqualified person taking over....
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2012 20:23:44 GMT -5
Pay them now,,,it's an insignificant amount of money. If not, the integrity of the game will continue to be compromised week after week & all the money in the world won't be able to fix that.
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Post by mike on Sept 16, 2012 20:31:35 GMT -5
The pensions are not an insignificant amount of money if the stock market is not doing well. Especially if they cannot compromise it just pushes same problems off to the next contract. Everything else is workable but pensions are a big deal
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2012 20:49:27 GMT -5
I say insignificant because I read that the cost for the professional officials is less than 1/2 of 1% of the Leagues revenues...after today it sounds like a bargain!
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Post by mike on Sept 16, 2012 21:10:19 GMT -5
The problem buzzy is that you have a lot of retirees soon which will drive up costs and with a defined benefit plan if the market is not good league has to invest more to have enough to pay pensions. On the other hand when market is good cost goes down. This is why the league wants to move to a defined contribution plan. Risk switches to officials not NFL
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Post by tuckerewell on Sept 16, 2012 23:49:01 GMT -5
Becky, Of course they're not qualified for the NFL. How could they be? I think the "regular" officials argument is hard to get behind. They're well paid. Making six figures for working part-time for half a year at great job. Who wouldn't want to do that? The propaganda floating around the Internet has them making $25,000-$70,000 a year but those numbers are from 10 years ago, maybe more. Why is it when you google or search "NFL officials pay" all kinds of sites come up with those exact numbers but different dates? I guess thats what someone or some group want people to think. The real numbers though, are much more than that. Don't get me wrong. I want the regulars back ASAP. I think their demands are a bit much. The NFL is their second job. If you've ever managed and scheduled more than a hundred workers who have multiple schedule variables, in this case 16, and have little wiggle room for a variety of factors and you re restricted because of a union contract, then you might know what I speak of. The NFL has no flexibility in scheduling officials. These guys have a union because the players do. Any other job or industry they'd probably be salaried and happy with that. The powerful NFL is probably asking themselves "What are these guys doing?".
They all could be out there next week Becky, if they so choose. I hope they are. The longer this goes the less sympathy I have for them. These are all men who make good money in their own line of work and had a second job with pretty good, soon to be better pay and some great fringe benefits. Just get the deal done.
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Post by becky10 on Sept 17, 2012 0:07:56 GMT -5
Becky, Of course they're not qualified for the NFL. How could they be? I think the "regular" officials argument is hard to get behind. They're well paid. Making six figures for working part-time for half a year at great job. Who wouldn't want to do that? The propaganda floating around the Internet has them making $25,000-$70,000 a year but those numbers are from 10 years ago, maybe more. Why is it when you google or search "NFL officials pay" all kinds of sites come up with those exact numbers but different dates? I guess thats what someone or some group want people to think. The real numbers though, are much more than that. Don't get me wrong. I want the regulars back ASAP. I think their demands are a bit much. The NFL is their second job. If you've ever managed and scheduled more than a hundred workers who have multiple schedule variables, in this case 16, and have little wiggle room for a variety of factors and you re restricted because of a union contract, then you might know what I speak of. The NFL has no flexibility in scheduling officials. These guys have a union because the players do. Any other job or industry they'd probably be salaried and happy with that. The powerful NFL is probably asking themselves "What are these guys doing?". They all could be out there next week Becky, if they so choose. I hope they are. The longer this goes the less sympathy I have for them. These are all men who make good money in their own line of work and had a second job with pretty good, soon to be better pay and some great fringe benefits. Just get the deal done. tuckerewell...... people miss the point.... the REAL NFL Referees/Officials have paid their dues.... Worked their way up to become an NFL Official and are quailfied. Some working 2 jobs during Pop Warner, High School, NCAA to make it to the level they are at now. They all worked hard in what they do to make the Game Called correctly. Nothing was given to these Officials and everyone must think... they the REAL Officials were making pennies back in their time to feed their families and holding down the jobs they have and Officiate.
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Post by tuckerewell on Sept 17, 2012 0:11:41 GMT -5
The pensions are not an insignificant amount of money if the stock market is not doing well. Especially if they cannot compromise it just pushes same problems off to the next contract. Everything else is workable but pensions are a big deal This is true Mike but each individual pension has a value based upon years worked, age of recipient, income of recipient and company contributions. The pensions as a whole are managed according to specific guidelines and investment criteria. Every company/municipality/union manages its pension differently. They aren't all safe or well performing. All of those factors are what determine the pension payout or value at a given time. If a 65 year old official was retiring and his pension figure was established as three choices, 1. Lump sum payout. 2. Single Annuity for Life ( this would be monthly installments of pension income) or 3. Annuity for Life with Spousal continuation at 50 or 75%, he should be able to compare and shop around various investment firms or insurance companies and get a comparable pension type payment of his choice from one of those companies. And that wouldn't necessarily entail major market risk or even any. There's risk in every financial instrument.
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