NCAA play

[Deleted]

PLAY: 4th/18 for Team A from the Team B 48-yard line. A4's punt breaks the plane of Team B's goal line, and then A87 bats the ball backwards into the field of play. B44 muffs the ball on the Team B 2-yard line and A67 recovers on the Team B 6-yard line. During the kick, B82 blocks an opponent below the waist on the Team B 14-yard line.

Whats the penalty and enforcement??

[FredFan7]

We have some NCAA rules experts online, so I'm sure you'll get your answer soon!

Welcome to the forum. Glad to see you jump right in! I hope you keep posting.

[zebrablog]

Not an expert on the NCAA rules, but I will take a stab at this. This is one of the instances where the NFL rules vary greatly.

The NCAA does not recognize the "diving save" of a punt in the air in the end zone. Team A commits a first-touch violation in the end zone. Once there is a first-touch violation (NCAA and NFL), Team A cannot recover the ball. So, B's penalty is assessed at the succeeding spot, B's ball 1-10-B10.

Welcome to the forum as well! Look forward to your contributions.

[75er]

A 1/10 B33; Postscrimmage kick (PSK) enforcement does not apply. Team A is in legal possession when the down ends so would be considered as next snapping the ball. Since Team B is not considered as next snapping the ball, the 15-yard penalty can only be enforced from the previous spot. Illegal touching is not a consideration when considering who will next snap the ball. Clock will start on the snap because the previous play was a legal kick play.

[Deleted]

That was what I thought. However, using the 3-in-1 principle, the fouls was behind the basic spot, making the enforcement spot the 14, putting the ball in play at the 7.

[Deleted]

So the muff cancels out the illegal touching??

[zebrablog]

If I get this right, the illegal touch violation is the option for B to take the ball at any illegal touch spot or the spot where they had the ball at the end of the down. Because there is no possession by B at the end of the down, there is no option for B, so the IBW foul takes precedence.

Because B did not recover or have the ball out of bounds, there is no end-of-down enforcement spot against B (it's not a tack-on enforcement if A recovers). The only option is previous spot, and the recovery by A is what waves off the illegal touch.

In that same scenario, if B recovered the ball inside the 20 or it went out of bounds, then it would be B ball 1/10/B10.

I think.

Here is a similar Approved Ruling from the NCAA 6-3-11-III:

Team A snaps at the 50-yard line and punts. The kick is untouched beyond the neutral zone when A88 reaches across Team B’s goal line and bats the ball back into the field of play. B22 muffs the ball at the B-2 and A43 recovers it at the B-6. While the ball is loose B77 holds A21 at the B-10. RULING: Team A may cancel the illegal touching privilege by accepting the holding penalty, which is enforced at the previous spot with the down replayed. Postscrimmage kick rules do not apply to Team B’s foul since Team A is in legal possession of the ball when it is declared dead.

[Deleted]

This is what's confusing for me. Yes AR does say that, but the same rule (6-3-11) states that only offsetting fouls cancel team B's privilege for the illegal touching. Also if team B possessed the ball and then fumbled it then A can have possession.

If B never touched the ball this is an easy play.

[Deleted]

Ok. Well, I was interpreting the rule 6-3-11 for the wrong team. We got a ruling from Cooper Castleberry and here is what he said.

"This play has really made the rounds and I don't know why there is so much
confusion. It is almost identical to AR 6-3-11-III. First, my ruling: The
basic spot on a scrimmage kick is the previous spot. If the provisions of
PSK are met, then we can enforce the Team B foul at the end of the kick.
But in this play, since Team B is not in possession at the end of the down,
and since the foul does not have a specified enforcement spot, all we have
left is the 3&1 Principle. If Team A declines the foul, Team B can have the
ball at the spot of the illegal touch...in this case it is behind the goal
line and a touchback. So, Team A will not decline the penalty and it is
enforced at the previous spot. A-1/10 @ B-37.

The basic problem is that 6-3-11 is poorly written. The sentence, "...Team
B's privilege for this violation is not canceled by an accepted penalty" is
a bit misleading. What that means is that if Team A fouls during the kick
and then illegally touches the ball in Team B's end zone, the penalty can be
accepted and enforced at the B-20. Without that provision, Team B would
have to either take the ball at the B-20 or go back to the previous spot,
penalize Team A and replay the down."

[Deleted]

zebra do you officiate?

[zebrablog]

I do not officiate. Chalk it up to one of life's regrets.

[Deleted]

Never too old to start!