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Post by FredFan7 on Dec 2, 2010 12:44:45 GMT -5
Silva became a referee in 1969 subbing for Norm Schachter. On this play you'll see Schachter fall down. He was chasing a defensive TD and it looks like something just gave out. Is this his season ending injury, thus allowing Silva to become a referee? In 1969, Silva was in his second year as an NFL official having been a LJ on Tunney's crew. bit.ly/fdOtUXAlso, is BJ12 Adrian Burk? If so, he changed his number after the NFL-AFL merger. |
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Post by teo on Dec 2, 2010 16:24:34 GMT -5
The play you mention is at 8:36 and I believe you're right. Silva (49) was the LJ with Schachter (the other officials were U Ralph Morcroft (15), HL George Murphy (30), BJ Adrian Burk (12) and FJ George Ellis (9). LJ Bob Beeks (59) worked with Silva for a few games, and that year Bob Frederic was the LJ on Tunney's crew (who, by the way had Lou Palazzi, not Pat Harder as his umpire). It's interesting that from 1969 to 1981 (his retirement) Morcroft was the umpire on Silva's crew.
As for Burk changing numbers in 1970, many NFL-AFL officials had to change due to seniority. Thus Ben Dreith wore 12 longer in the AFL and kept that number. The same occured with Silva, AFL BJ Hunter Jackson kept 49. Even Harder changed from 36 to 88 due to Tony Veteri being an official longer.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2010 22:24:35 GMT -5
I believe that Frederic was a BJ at the time of the merger, and for one year afterwards. I also see Schacter still at work after his fall, so Silva didn't take over for him until the next week. I do remember Fred working a game at R with the humber 49.
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Post by FredFan7 on Dec 4, 2010 16:42:51 GMT -5
The play you mention is at 8:36 and I believe you're right. Silva (49) was the LJ with Schachter (the other officials were U Ralph Morcroft (15), HL George Murphy (30), BJ Adrian Burk (12) and FJ George Ellis (9). LJ Bob Beeks (59) worked with Silva for a few games, and that year Bob Frederic was the LJ on Tunney's crew (who, by the way had Lou Palazzi, not Pat Harder as his umpire). It's interesting that from 1969 to 1981 (his retirement) Morcroft was the umpire on Silva's crew. You're right. Palazzi broke Tunney in as a referee starting in 1967. Harder and Tunney were paired together from 1970 until Harder's retirement after the 1982 season - the same length of time as the Morcroft/Silva pairing. |
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Post by FredFan7 on Dec 4, 2010 17:09:39 GMT -5
I just dug out Schachter's book and this IS the game that knocked him out for the season. He even said that the play was called back on a defensive hold. If you look at the end of the segment when he signals the penalty, right afterward he signaled official time. I bet he had to get looked at by the trainer.
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Post by nyasablue on Dec 4, 2010 20:34:37 GMT -5
Silva became a referee in 1969 subbing for Norm Schachter. On this play you'll see Schachter fall down. He was chasing a defensive TD and it looks like something just gave out. Is this his season ending injury, thus allowing Silva to become a referee? In 1969, Silva was in his second year as an NFL official having been a LJ on Tunney's crew. bit.ly/fdOtUXAlso, is BJ12 Adrian Burk? If so, he changed his number after the NFL-AFL merger. You will also see he is taking very tiny steps after making the penalty signal. Just curious - who would take over at R today if a similar thing happened in a game today? Is there a set rotation? Or is it the most experienced non-R in the crew? |
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Post by FredFan7 on Dec 4, 2010 21:51:33 GMT -5
Silva became a referee in 1969 subbing for Norm Schachter. On this play you'll see Schachter fall down. He was chasing a defensive TD and it looks like something just gave out. Is this his season ending injury, thus allowing Silva to become a referee? In 1969, Silva was in his second year as an NFL official having been a LJ on Tunney's crew. bit.ly/fdOtUXAlso, is BJ12 Adrian Burk? If so, he changed his number after the NFL-AFL merger. You will also see he is taking very tiny steps after making the penalty signal. Just curious - who would take over at R today if a similar thing happened in a game today? Is there a set rotation? Or is it the most experienced non-R in the crew? On each crew there is a designated rotation if an official has to leave due to an injury. There is one official designated to go in at umpire (usually a deep wing). Many times there is another official on the crew who has had prior referee experience and is the designated referee replacement. Steratore was a Big East R and he took over one game when Kukar was injured for example. Each crew has its own pre-arranged rotation on how to proceed if they have to continue with six officials. |
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Post by melkaman8200 on Dec 4, 2010 22:05:03 GMT -5
As a history major, I'm sorry to say that this is one historical question I don't know the answer to.
But, it leads to an interesting question that may have been addressed here before (if it was, I don't remember)...how many referee's got attention because they took over for an injured/sick referee?
We have Fred Silva established above, I was watching the game that saw Johnny Grier injured (the first time) and Scott Green take over. We also know about Gene Steratore taking over for Bernie Kukar when he stepped in front of players chasing a ball out of bounds.
Didn't Tom White and/or Ron Blum have the same thing happen?
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Post by FredFan7 on Dec 4, 2010 22:39:52 GMT -5
As a history major, I'm sorry to say that this is one historical question I don't know the answer to. But, it leads to an interesting question that may have been addressed here before (if it was, I don't remember)...how many referee's got attention because they took over for an injured/sick referee? We have Fred Silva established above, I was watching the game that saw Johnny Grier injured (the first time) and Scott Green take over. We also know about Gene Steratore taking over for Bernie Kukar when he stepped in front of players chasing a ball out of bounds. Didn't Tom White and/or Ron Blum have the same thing happen? Don't know about Blum. But, Tom White was a rookie HL on Bob McElwee's crew in 1989. McElwee got violently ill the night before the game (something like food poisoning) and it was too late to call in the MNF referee or the one who had a week off. The crew had to choice but to go with six and have White work as referee in a white hat and his HL123 shirt. White had referee experience in college and in the USFL. White became a referee for the 1990 season. In an ironic twist, I believe White was injured and had to sit out for a half in his last season and his replacement was Jerome Boger - who replaced White when he retired at the end of the season. Does anyone remember that? |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2010 22:45:23 GMT -5
Imagine if that illness never happened and McElwee reffed that game....
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Post by FredFan7 on Dec 4, 2010 22:50:46 GMT -5
Imagine if that illness never happened and McElwee reffed that game.... True. But, I think the NFL hired White with the idea that he might be a R someday. And, White officiated several playoff games in his first years at R. It was only later that he regressed (or stayed the same while others improved). Many times you need a break in addition to making your own breaks. |
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