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Post by FredFan7 on Sept 20, 2011 13:47:51 GMT -5
Good stuff about rules and I heartily agree with his last answer about the place of technology in officiating. on-msn.com/o2THlZ
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Post by FredFan7 on Sept 27, 2011 14:34:12 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2011 14:59:03 GMT -5
From the chat log, he said Ray Horton works for the Cardinals and his brother cant do their games. Since Buddy Horton is on Blakeman's crew, I am guessing either that crew wont due Cardinals' games this year or will be subbed out if they do.
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Post by FredFan7 on Oct 6, 2011 9:31:01 GMT -5
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Post by FredFan7 on Oct 11, 2011 13:04:36 GMT -5
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Post by timdaye on Oct 13, 2011 17:27:36 GMT -5
I agree with Mike on the 12-men on the field rule. If some fat lineman is running off the field and he is outside the numbers and makes absolutely no attempt to do anything other than run off the field, let him go and keep the flag in your pocket. Unless someone is chasing him, it has ZERO effect on the play.
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Post by FredFan7 on Oct 13, 2011 17:42:00 GMT -5
I agree with Mike on the 12-men on the field rule. If some fat lineman is running off the field and he is outside the numbers and makes absolutely no attempt to do anything other than run off the field, let him go and keep the flag in your pocket. Unless someone is chasing him, it has ZERO effect on the play. In high school we officiate five man mechanics. When the wing official sees a defender running off the field, he will take a few steps onto the field and allow the subbed player to go past him. The wing has no time and is not able to take his eyes off of the line of scrimmage to turn around and see if the player made it off. There's no SJ or FJ, so that's how we get around a sub being a step or two onto the field.
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Post by zcr57 on Oct 13, 2011 18:48:44 GMT -5
I agree with Mike on the 12-men on the field rule. If some fat lineman is running off the field and he is outside the numbers and makes absolutely no attempt to do anything other than run off the field, let him go and keep the flag in your pocket. Unless someone is chasing him, it has ZERO effect on the play. In high school we officiate five man mechanics. When the wing official sees a defender running off the field, he will take a few steps onto the field and allow the subbed player to go past him. The wing has no time and is not able to take his eyes off of the line of scrimmage to turn around and see if the player made it off. There's no SJ or FJ, so that's how we get around a sub being a step or two onto the field. This is a common sense mechanic. There's no need to throw a flag when a player is making an effort to get off of the field and has zero influence on the play.
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Post by JugglingReferee on Oct 13, 2011 20:52:42 GMT -5
I agree with Mike on the 12-men on the field rule. If some fat lineman is running off the field and he is outside the numbers and makes absolutely no attempt to do anything other than run off the field, let him go and keep the flag in your pocket. Unless someone is chasing him, it has ZERO effect on the play. This is the Canadian philosophy. The only time that we have an Illegal Substitution foul is when there legitimately is 13 or more on the field actually participating. We save many hankies being thrown with this philosophy.
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Post by zebrablog on Oct 13, 2011 22:38:24 GMT -5
The problem with changing the rule is that it is now a bright-line enforcement: either there are 12 men on the field or not. If you add in the "well, he's not really part of the play," then you've added subjectivity to the mix. The other team could counter with an argument that they were not sure that the player was not participating until he got outside of the numbers, and thus no chance to set their formation properly.
And, good or bad, once it becomes subjective, it is no longer subject to replay review.
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Post by FredFan7 on Oct 13, 2011 22:48:21 GMT -5
The problem with changing the rule is that it is now a bright-line enforcement: either there are 12 men on the field or not. If you add in the "well, he's not really part of the play," then you've added subjectivity to the mix. The other team could counter with an argument that they were not sure that the player was not participating until he got outside of the numbers, and thus no chance to set their formation properly. And, good or bad, once it becomes subjective, it is no longer subject to replay review. Correct. I'm not advocating the high school mechanic for the NFL, especially when there several cameras that can catch whether or not a player is off the field. There are so many subjective calls for the officials to make, this rule has to be hard and fast.
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Post by I've been warned on Oct 13, 2011 23:04:00 GMT -5
...then you've added subjectivity to the mix... The day officiating doesn't have a subjectivity component and is exclusively objective, it won't be fun and then I'm gone.
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Post by zebrablog on Oct 13, 2011 23:22:13 GMT -5
Well, there will always be subjectivity. But, I'm sure no one is clamoring for more judgment calls. Besides, the Competition Committee would have to draft up about a page and a half of rules to define when the 12th man has "completed the process" of leaving the field.
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Post by hank on Oct 14, 2011 0:36:49 GMT -5
The problem with changing the rule is that it is now a bright-line enforcement: either there are 12 men on the field or not. If you add in the "well, he's not really part of the play," then you've added subjectivity to the mix. The other team could counter with an argument that they were not sure that the player was not participating until he got outside of the numbers, and thus no chance to set their formation properly. And, good or bad, once it becomes subjective, it is no longer subject to replay review. I agree; but being a contrarian - this mentality should also ring true for PI on a Hail Mary pass - either there is PI or there is not (therefore great call by McAulay in footage shown in another strand - clearly the defender(s) were playing the receiver and not the ball). Also, regardless if the player "is not really a part of the play", the Oakland Raiders committed this exact situational 12-men on the field penalty in consecutive weeks. This behavior could easily be coached and/or corrected and it obviously wasn't and the league caught them not "yet" off the field twice - so, the crews and league should be applauded. The greater consistency the league/officials provides teams in enforcing the rules of the game the greater the game. The unordinary is that Tommy Moore (great eyes) was the official who threw the flag on Sunday, clearly following up his Super Bowl year with another Super Bowl caliber season.
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Post by cj on Oct 14, 2011 6:19:50 GMT -5
Every pro sport has the letter of the law and common sense, especially when you get to the big leagues.
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