|
Post by cj on Oct 20, 2011 10:59:45 GMT -5
Richie Garcia made one of the most gutless poor calls in baseball history in 1996 when somehow he didn't see that 12 year old juvenile delinquent reach over the rail and deprive the Orioles right field Terasco an opportunity to make a fairly routine catch of a long fly ball hit by Derek Jeter ruling it a game tying home run. It was brutal. Yet did that mean that Garcia was never allowed to work an Oriole game again? Reggie Jackson stuck his rear end in the way of a throw during a Yankee-LA World series, a clear case of interference. Frank Pulli did not have the guts in Yankee Stadium to make the proper ruling. Was Pulli banned from working LA games thereafter? Terrry Gregson and another referee missed seeing Dennis Hull's toe was in the goal crease during a year when if you had a toe nail in the goal crease the goal was automatically disallowed. It was a Stanley Cup winning goal and he clearly as well as his colleague blew the call. Does that mean he was banned in Buffalo thereafter?
This seems only to happen in the NFL and it is wrong and in theory, Coleman's call after the replay was the correct call according to the NFL. It just doesn't look right.
|
|
|
Post by FredFan7 on Oct 20, 2011 11:09:29 GMT -5
This is just my request, but please be careful about labeling an official's call "gutless." Officials make mistakes, get screened, the ball takes a surprising bounce and they are caught off guard. Officials don't have the time to pause and reflect on the consequence or the game situation when they make the call.
The term "gutless" is a pretty incendiary word in the world of officiating.
I would advise all to use that word with caution.
|
|
|
Post by cj on Oct 20, 2011 11:30:15 GMT -5
Fred...maybe it's just how much I hate the Yankees and all they stand for (arrogance, entitlement) that makes those plays tand out for me. I just find it hard to believe that you have 6 umpires, especially on the Jeter routine fly ball to right who didn't see the jd reach over the fence. If you want to say it should have been ruled spectator interference and Jeter placed on 2nd base, fine. Something as obvious as that, as well as the Reggie Jackson play, simply shouldn't be missed.. It just seems to me it would have taken a large pair of you know whats to make these calls against the Yankees in NY, it just doesn't seem possible to miss these calls.
The good thing is they're working to make spectator interference on fair balls much harder. When Citi Field was built, the wall at the dop juts out far further than any fan cdan reach so you really shouldn't ever have anything like that.
I'm sorry if you don't like the term I used but those calls were pretty bad, you have to admit.
|
|
|
Post by FredFan7 on Oct 20, 2011 11:58:32 GMT -5
I don't want to devolve this thread into a "gutless" debate (sorry OP) so I will just state this point. Yes, the calls were incorrect, some glaringly so. But, when the officials made that call, they simply didn't take into account where they were. I've kept a winning TD drive alive for the home team with a DPI flag. I didn't once think, "we've got to go through the crowd to get to our lockers and then walk across the parking lot." You just make the call.
And, I'd argue that there ARE consequences no matter the call or situation. Pulli and Lasorda were good for one screaming cuss fight each season after the Reggie Jackson play in 1978. Garcia had to go to Baltimore later in that series.
If an official decides to duck his responsibilities and deliberately not make a call due being afraid of repercussions, they are in for a VERY short career. While Pulli, Garcia, Hochuli, Swearingen, Gregson, Fraser, Stickle, Hollins, Kersey, and Denkinger badly missed calls in very high profile situations, those errors were made because of bad mechanics, a surprise bounce, or getting screened for an instant. If they were afraid to make the call they would have been weeded out of the officiating ranks loooong before they got to the hot spotlights.
|
|
|
Post by cj on Oct 20, 2011 12:05:25 GMT -5
Sorry Fred...I'll be a good boy from here on in.
|
|
|
Post by FredFan7 on Oct 20, 2011 12:56:54 GMT -5
It's ok, cj. I value your posts and you make valid points. It's all good!
|
|
|
Post by nyasablue on Oct 20, 2011 16:33:14 GMT -5
Baseball used to do it all the time - especially when Weaver was in Baltimore. Particularly with Luciano and a couple of others - although if the kept every umpire Weaver had problems with away from Oriole games, they would ended up using Little League umps!
One thing that never gets talked about in that Reggie-sticking-his-butt-out play, is that Brinkman at 3B thought HE had blown the call, because, if you ever get a chance to see that game, Bill Russell came VERY close to intentionally dropping that little pop up, and Brinkman was so mortified thinking he had blown not calling THAT! In fact, Marty Springstead came to him after that inning and told Brinkman he thought Russell had intentionally dropped it before Brinkman had a chance to ask him!
|
|
|
Post by cj on Oct 20, 2011 17:09:06 GMT -5
Baseball used to do it all the time - especially when Weaver was in Baltimore. Particularly with Luciano and a couple of others - although if the kept every umpire Weaver had problems with away from Oriole games, they would ended up using Little League umps! One thing that never gets talked about in that Reggie-sticking-his-butt-out play, is that Brinkman at 3B thought HE had blown the call, because, if you ever get a chance to see that game, Bill Russell came VERY close to intentionally dropping that little pop up, and Brinkman was so mortified thinking he had blown not calling THAT! In fact, Marty Springstead came to him after that inning and told Brinkman he thought Russell had intentionally dropped it before Brinkman had a chance to ask him! But Luciano had a whole lot of incidents with Weaver before he was banned in Baltimore (I really don't remember whether he was, I think also Tom Haller wasn't allowed to do Baltimore games after a whole series of confontations but I'm not sure(. Here, as far as I know, Coleman had one incident with the Raiders. Now I always joke with friends that the Pats always seemed to have a charmed life with Coleman games, the game against the Bills we discussed in the other thread was a Coleman game but of course he had nothing to do with the "poor" calls (interesting again the game was in New England; I'll let it go at that and not make any innuyendos). Now the following summer, when the NFL dispatched its refs to various training camps, Mike Carey drew the short straw sorry got to be the messenger at Raiders camp and they didn't let him get a word in edgewise so incensed they remained long after that play. Did that have anything to do with the decision not to assign Coleman to any Raider games? Was it Steratore who had that situation in Miami last last year with a Pittsburgh game on the fumble just before the goal line when he didn't award Miami the touchdown? And didn't innuendos (there's that word again) that both he and the line judge who blew the call originally were from the Pittsburgh area? I seem to remember that but I wonder, I don't keep all those stats the way others do, has Steratore done any Pittsburgh games since then? It's simply a very stick business and all I think we should know because it's so obvious now is why this is being done.
|
|
sab2423
Division I White Hat
Posts: 153
|
Post by sab2423 on Oct 21, 2011 10:46:00 GMT -5
Carl Cheffers will be in Jacksonville for MNF, per Baltimore media.
|
|
|
Post by bulldog6878 on Oct 22, 2011 16:27:51 GMT -5
I don't believe there are only three games games Ed Hochuli is eligible to officiate. PIttburh/Az cardinals NY Jets /San Diego Chiefs / Raiders. It makes sense that he has a bye week.
|
|
|
Post by becky10 on Oct 22, 2011 20:31:04 GMT -5
Referee Clete Blakeman
Broncos VS Dolphins
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2011 10:02:05 GMT -5
Ruben Fowler still injured. Butch Hannah taking his place in Minnesota.
|
|
|
Post by I've been warned on Oct 23, 2011 10:40:54 GMT -5
Face it. None of us knows for sure. Perhaps Coleman HAS been assigned Raider's games by the scheduling software the NFL uses and then, after reviewing the assignments, manual changes have been made by Seeman / MP / Johnson ? Maybe Walt himself has asked off of Raider's games and his wishes have been honored.
I made a call in a HS contest once that was covered by print media over 500 miles away. I didn't do that teams' contests for over 10 years, then saw them a time or two while they were the visiting team and finally I've gotten back into their home games. This was a coordinated effort on their part, my part and the assignor's part. The head coach (same one) and I now dine, drink and golf regularly.
|
|
|
Post by becky10 on Oct 23, 2011 11:22:47 GMT -5
Seahawks VS Browns
FJ #50 Weir
So....
Referee is Mike Carey
|
|
|
Post by howard63 on Oct 23, 2011 12:11:18 GMT -5
Jerome Boger in Charlotte with Dino Paganelli subbing for Tony Steratore at back judge.
|
|