|
|
Post by FredFan7 on Jan 9, 2012 1:11:50 GMT -5
|
|
Brent
Division I White Hat
Posts: 164
|
Post by Brent on Jan 9, 2012 10:19:08 GMT -5
call in Denver. The rules were applied correctly. Yes, but that doesn't take away from the fact that the whistle should never have blown... |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2012 10:29:19 GMT -5
If the official ruled the play a forward pass then he would blow his whistle and signal a incompleted pass. As far as i'm concern this is a judgement call. There is no such thing as a bad judgement call.
|
|
|
|
Post by FredFan7 on Jan 9, 2012 10:41:58 GMT -5
Correct, Brent. But this explains why there was no "continuing action" aspect to this play.
|
|
|
|
Post by mike on Jan 9, 2012 10:53:36 GMT -5
If the official ruled the play a forward pass then he would blow his whistle and signal a incompleted pass. As far as i'm concern this is a judgement call. There is no such thing as a bad judgement call. How can a forward pass be a judgment call? It went parallel or forward or it did not. By your standard just about everything is a "judgment call" |
|
Brent
Division I White Hat
Posts: 164
|
Post by Brent on Jan 9, 2012 11:24:23 GMT -5
If the official ruled the play a forward pass then he would blow his whistle and signal a incompleted pass. As far as i'm concern this is a judgement call. There is no such thing as a bad judgement call. No way that is a judgement call, that's about as black and white as it gets, forward or backward. I'm sorry, but this in my mind is not even close to a judgement call. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2012 13:00:41 GMT -5
Brent and Mike the NFL does not agree with me either on the defination of a judgement call either. Please give me an examples of what you consider a judgement call.
Thanks
|
|
|
|
Post by zebrablog on Jan 9, 2012 13:20:05 GMT -5
Judgement calls are based on subjective criteria where an official uses his opinion to decide (items such as pass interference, holding, when forward progress ends). For the determination of a forward/backward pass, there is objective criteria: when the ball is released, does it go to a point parallel to nearer to the team's goal? An official must make those calls, not on his opinion, but on his determination of observed facts.
I understand, edkargir, that the official had to "judge" the flight of the ball. That doesn't make it a judgement call, otherwise every single call can be considered a judgement call. In this case the official made an estimation of what he saw. In this case, he was wrong, because he misapplied the objective evidence before him.
|
|
Brent
Division I White Hat
Posts: 164
|
Post by Brent on Jan 9, 2012 14:00:43 GMT -5
Agree with Zebrablog that PI, holding, progress, are all judgement calls. Basically anything that can be reviewed is not a judgement call, and in fact, seeing if a pass was forward or backwards is reviewable, thus not a judgement call. By ruling that this was an incomplete pass, the play ended when the whistle sounded, thus, with no possession at that time, all a review would do was move the ball to where it was when the whistle sounded. But if they had ruled that it was a backward pass when it in fact was not, that could be reviewed and reversed because it is something where there is no judgement involved. This is like a ball crossing the goal line or not, either it did or didn't, there is no judgement here.
|
|
|
|
Post by mike on Jan 9, 2012 14:52:42 GMT -5
Judgment Call examples:
1) One of the aspects of Defensive Pass Interference is whether the DB altered the WR's ability to catch the ball
2) Whether a receiver was in the vicinity for Intentional Grounding
3) Whether a QB was "in the grasp" of a defender
While I ordinarily will not mark down for a "judgment call" there is an exception where the judgment of the official is so obviously wrong that there cannot be a doubt about what occurred. For example, if a DB throws a WR to the turf to prevent him from catching a pass and the officials do not throw a flag for DPI I think we can all agree that deserves a downgrade
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2012 18:08:41 GMT -5
Thanks Mike and Brent for examples of Judgement ca qlls. The ball going over the goal line to me is definately a judgement call. I know we are talking football but by your defination in baseball a ball or strike or safe or out call is not a judgement call. Rule 9a says these are judgement calls players and management have no right to question. I agree.
|
|
|
|
Post by tuckerewell on Jan 9, 2012 18:21:38 GMT -5
All calls made are "judgement calls". If a call is reviewable, it helps eliminate the subjectivity of judgement. There are so many "black and white" calls that are still judgement calls and usually the follow up review bears out their accuracy, but as plays and calls happen...it's judgement and sometimes, depending on who's making the call, a varied level of subjectivity. The mind is a great thing. Whether spotting of the ball, neutral zone infraction, offsides, holding, PI or even false start, there is judgement and subjectivity involved.
Referee = arbitrator/judge
|
|
|
|
Post by hank on Jan 10, 2012 0:11:06 GMT -5
My judgement is that we are all saying the same thing many ways, the call on the field was incorrect.
I do agree that a forward/backward pass is not a "judgement call." However, Arthur was not in position to distinguish clearly if the pass was a forward or backward pass. Arthur was simultaneously moving in the same direction as the ball, thus he may have perceived that the ball was not moving away from him. For what ever reason he lost his spots, where the ball was released and where the ball traveled, due to this, Arthur made this a judgement call, and his judgement was off.
|
|
|
|
Post by BTFS Admin on Jan 10, 2012 0:25:10 GMT -5
The day that pass interference is reviewable is the day I stop watching the NFL completely. Just hope it doesn't come to that.
|
|
