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Post by wilburthegoose on Oct 21, 2023 18:11:27 GMT -5
Wow. I can’t believe they took a TD away due to an invalid fair catch foul. In no way did I think it was a foul. What a mess.
There was no intent to deceive the kicking team and the player was telling his teammates to keep away from the ball, which had already not the ground.
Ughh
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Post by edman85 on Oct 21, 2023 18:54:25 GMT -5
Per the letter of the rule, it appears to be the correct call, but color me curious what officials think. The rule does not specify there has to be deception. Just a waiving motion that doesn't meet the requirements of a fair catch. Reggie Smith very quickly rubber stamped it on the telecast.
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Post by FredFan7 on Oct 21, 2023 18:58:17 GMT -5
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Post by wilburthegoose on Oct 21, 2023 19:07:45 GMT -5
Per the letter of the rule, it appears to be the correct call, but color me curious what officials think. The rule does not specify there has to be deception. Just a waiving motion that doesn't meet the requirements of a fair catch. Reggie Smith very quickly rubber stamped it on the telecast. I thought the call was ‘too cute’. Over-officious. Akin to a cop ticketing a driver for some arcane violation that put nobody at risk. Trust me, nobody on K was deceived by the arm movement. No harm, no foul. |
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Post by edman85 on Oct 21, 2023 19:40:18 GMT -5
This situation came up in Shaw's Rules Video last week.
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Post by wilburthegoose on Oct 21, 2023 21:06:31 GMT -5
Watching UNC/VA. UNC punt returner made the same motions. No foul. No violation. Correctly officiated.
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Post by agpennypacker on Oct 21, 2023 21:40:57 GMT -5
Which official threw the flag on this play?
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Post by BkSl14812 on Oct 21, 2023 22:28:51 GMT -5
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Post by agpennypacker on Oct 22, 2023 1:29:14 GMT -5
Wow. No one on the field threw. Replay did. I assume it was the command center?
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Post by edman85 on Oct 22, 2023 8:29:39 GMT -5
Is there a flag thrown for invalid fair catch signal? There's no yardage penalty, just a dead ball at the spot. If it's ambiguous, I can see letting the play run out and double checking on replay, which the rules allow.
Also, Shaw went into this rule last week on his weekly video.
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Post by agpennypacker on Oct 22, 2023 9:32:55 GMT -5
You’re right. My error!
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Post by wilburthegoose on Oct 22, 2023 9:56:11 GMT -5
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Post by psu213 on Oct 22, 2023 20:13:07 GMT -5
Trust me, nobody on K was deceived by the arm movement. No harm, no foul. Likely true, but if I was a Minnesota fan, I would argue that if even one member of team A slows down because of this invalid, that could have been the player to make the tackle, and it should be whistled dead. Regardless, it should be the responsibility of the head coach to teach their returner(s) what they can (point) and can't (wave their arm) do. And it is the responsibility of the returner to make sure they carry these responsibilities into practice. If this was called in the first quarter of the game on a 12 yard return, no one would really care. But if it is called on that 12 yard return, it should be called on the (potentially) game winning kick return. Yes, if my team was on the "wrong" side of this call, I'd be ticked (or worse  ), but I can't see that this was the wrong call. |
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Post by agpennypacker on Oct 23, 2023 20:27:03 GMT -5
Bill Carollo and Steve Shaw say it was the correct call. Here are some sections I found interesting in a new article about it. - Ferentz was miffed that the NCAA was reviewing this call in Pittsburgh, saying the on-field crew should have the final say. But Carollo said it was the on-site replay official at Kinnick Stadium, Ken Koester, who made the final call. Koester buzzed in for six replay reviews Saturday. “Pittsburgh does weigh in. They watch and listen,” Carollo said. “If (on-site officials) make an egregious error or if they disagree with them …. They are listening, ‘Is this the correct call?’ So, the call was made by my replay official at the game.” Carollo added: “In retrospect, we would have preferred if they were confident (on the field) that signal was an invalid signal, we should have killed the play.” Iowa fans understandably are upset that O’Dey was involved with this game. O’Dey has a checkered history in big moments. His crew in 2016 incorrectly gave Central Michigan a final untimed snap to throw a Hail Mary touchdown that beat Oklahoma State and was suspended for two games. He also was the line judge that ruled Iowa’s Jack Campbell stepped out of bounds on an interception return at Minnesota in 2022, erasing a 75-yard touchdown with 2:06 left that would've broken a 10-10 tie. Iowa won the game anyway, but replays showed Campbell never stepped out of bounds and because it was blown dead, the play couldn’t be reviewed. Carollo assigns officials to each Big Ten game and said there was "no consideration" of that Campbell play as being detrimental to O’Dey’s presence in Iowa City on Saturday. “We all make mistakes,” Carollo said. “It's different position. Different game. I usually don't comment on past games. But I did acknowledge at the time we made a mistake. But Tim O’Dey is 60 yards away from this play. He does watch, but replay is making the final decision in the booth at Iowa.” www.hawkcentral.com/story/sports/college/iowa/football/2023/10/23/why-was-cooper-dejean-punt-return-overturned-big-ten-ncaa-replay-minnesota/71289170007/ |
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), but I can't see that this was the wrong call.