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Post by nyasablue on Dec 15, 2014 11:24:39 GMT -5
russ, a bunch of Bears' fans will see your Jay Gruden and raise you Marc Trestman! And there are many of us in South Florida that will take both your Gruden and Trestman and raise you a Joe Philbin Can Jet fans throw a GM in? Not to mention an owner....
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Post by theglenn on Dec 15, 2014 12:24:48 GMT -5
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Post by melkaman8200 on Dec 15, 2014 14:04:36 GMT -5
I thought removing an opponent's helmet was an automatic ejection, going back to Lyle Alzado in the 1982 playoffs. It is my understanding that the only automatic ejections are for hitting an official and using a helmet not being worn as a weapon. That having been said, I think a good point is being raised. I've seen a few too many times where there's a brawl, that there are flags and hats all over the place, but only one or two players are hit with penalties and maybe only one or two ejection. I can remember a playoff game where Ron Winter called several unnecessary roughness penalties against both teams and MP, when he had the TV spot on NFL Network, somewhat criticized the decision. I don't quite know what the criteria is or what instructions officials get from the league, but if you have multiple fighters, they should all be given the penalties (yes, I know they offset, that isn't the point), and they shouldn't be so afraid to eject people in those situations. Oh well, I guess that's just the way it goes.
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Post by cj on Dec 15, 2014 14:49:14 GMT -5
Okay guys. As we get ready to begin our annual exercise in futility i.e. guessing the playoff officials and trying to guesstimate who is getting dinged, let me bring up something for which I don't have the answer.
The last play of yesterday's Loser Bowl between NYJ-Ten ended with Ten trying a bunch of laterals to free up somebody and almost succeeded as the last Ten player was tackled by the last Jet defender at the 8 and time was then out as the play began with 1 second left. All well and good. But the very last lateral may well have gone forward (the announcer said it had). If indeed upon review today at Park Avenue, the crew will be dinged, right? But if the Ten player had scored, surely there would have been a review and if indeed that last lateral was indeed forward, the reversal would save the crew from a ding, wouldn't it. So the question is, for bookkeeping purposes, shouldn't the play have been reviewed anyway to get it right. Of course as it turned out it would have no affect on the final outcome of the game as the Tennessee player was stopped short but...isn't the idea to always get the call right?
Just wondering...zebra you're the expert here. Shouldn't the play have been reviewed anyway?
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Post by I've been warned on Dec 16, 2014 7:08:06 GMT -5
I'm not sure how Blandino can ascertain what Ed saw. It's the courtroom equivalent of hearsay evidence. The attorney in Ed will (or should) appeal this vociferously on those grounds. If Boger can have downgrades overturned, so can Hochuli.
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Post by theglenn on Dec 16, 2014 7:53:40 GMT -5
I'm not sure how Blandino can ascertain what Ed saw. It's the courtroom equivalent of hearsay evidence. The attorney in Ed will (or should) appeal this vociferously on those grounds. If Boger can have downgrades overturned, so can Hochuli. Probably because of every bit of video evidence...and because Ed said this: --->“I felt that he hit the quarterback in the chest with the hairline, and that’s a foul unless he has his face completely up and would hit it face on with the face mask,” he said, via Matt Maiocco of CSNBayArea.com. “It’s a foul, and that’s why I called it.” “I felt that he hit him with the hairline. The facemask, after you hit him, the facemask comes up. But the first thing that hit him was the hairline of the helmet.”<--- He "felt"...he didn't "see". For a long time common folks have been saying that officials too often call what they THINK will/did happen vs watching to see what does DOES happen. This is a good example of the former...and more and more people are noticing.
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Post by zebrablog on Dec 17, 2014 3:02:04 GMT -5
The last play of yesterday's Loser Bowl between NYJ-Ten ended with Ten trying a bunch of laterals to free up somebody and almost succeeded as the last Ten player was tackled by the last Jet defender at the 8 and time was then out as the play began with 1 second left. All well and good. But the very last lateral may well have gone forward (the announcer said it had). If indeed upon review today at Park Avenue, the crew will be dinged, right? The last lateral WAS a forward pass, and is worth one position in the draft. The grading is going to take into account everyone's position on the play. HL is trailing by about a yard and a half, just by the nature of the play unfolding. LJ could give some support. I think the officiating department is okay with letting that run, because you give the runners the benefit if you can't definitively tell. Dings don't get reversed by replay. Reversals are not automatic dings. Circumstances prevail. Entire crews are not dinged on a play unless there is a rules misapplication. If the HL was way out of position, and the forward toss could have been better discerned, then maybe you get a downgrade. From my chair, the most definitive call I could make in the live action was "probably," but nothing I would shut the play down for. But, it was definitely an illegal forward pass.
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Post by I've been warned on Dec 17, 2014 9:19:18 GMT -5
I'm not sure how Blandino can ascertain what Ed saw. It's the courtroom equivalent of hearsay evidence. The attorney in Ed will (or should) appeal this vociferously on those grounds. If Boger can have downgrades overturned, so can Hochuli. Probably because of every bit of video evidence...and because Ed said this: --->“I felt that he hit the quarterback in the chest with the hairline, and that’s a foul unless he has his face completely up and would hit it face on with the face mask,” he said, via Matt Maiocco of CSNBayArea.com. “It’s a foul, and that’s why I called it.” “I felt that he hit him with the hairline. The facemask, after you hit him, the facemask comes up. But the first thing that hit him was the hairline of the helmet.”<--- He "felt"...he didn't "see". For a long time common folks have been saying that officials too often call what they THINK will/did happen vs watching to see what does DOES happen. This is a good example of the former...and more and more people are noticing. He "felt" that way because he flagged what he "saw." My question was a rhetorical one - nobody can tell Ed what Ed saw or didn't see. Case closed.
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Post by theglenn on Dec 17, 2014 9:51:44 GMT -5
Probably because of every bit of video evidence...and because Ed said this: --->“I felt that he hit the quarterback in the chest with the hairline, and that’s a foul unless he has his face completely up and would hit it face on with the face mask,” he said, via Matt Maiocco of CSNBayArea.com. “It’s a foul, and that’s why I called it.” “I felt that he hit him with the hairline. The facemask, after you hit him, the facemask comes up. But the first thing that hit him was the hairline of the helmet.”<--- He "felt"...he didn't "see". For a long time common folks have been saying that officials too often call what they THINK will/did happen vs watching to see what does DOES happen. This is a good example of the former...and more and more people are noticing. He "felt" that way because he flagged what he "saw." My question was a rhetorical one - nobody can tell Ed what Ed saw or didn't see. Case closed. Uh, I respectfully disagree. He could NOT have seen the hit. Every angle shows that. He flagged what he THOUGHT he saw...but he didn't "see" anything. /photo/1 blogs.seattletimes.com/seahawks/2014/12/14/postgame-comments-from-referee-ed-hochuli/
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Post by I've been warned on Dec 17, 2014 18:25:40 GMT -5
Unless Ed's optic nerves were connected to your brain, you don't know s*** about what Ed saw.
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Post by russ on Dec 17, 2014 20:26:14 GMT -5
Unless Ed's optic nerves were connected to your brain, you don't know s*** about what Ed saw. Agreed mdhutton, Hochuli got the call wrong and as much was even admitted by Dean Blandino, but you cannot say that Hochuli did not see it. Maybe he did maybe he did not but a picture does not show us anything. Just because hochuli called a play incorrectly does not mean he din't see it.
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Post by theglenn on Dec 18, 2014 7:29:21 GMT -5
Well, my optic nerves are connected to MY eyes...and every picture AND video shows he's view was blocked at the point of impact. He never said he SAW anything...he said he FELT. And he FELT wrong.
So, without the cursing, I can safely say he didn't see the hit.
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Post by cj on Dec 18, 2014 8:09:10 GMT -5
Yet in listening to Boomer & Carton on WFAN this morning, apparently Mike Carey on Inside the NFL agreed with Hochulhi and claimed he would have made the call. Now I didn't see the show, I'm just reporting what I think I heard Boomer say.
There is some speculation and I did hear Mike Periera say it in one interview that the competition committee is considering making that type of call reviewable in the future now that they have the replay working properly and efficiently with New York making the final call on these things. Hope to see it in the future done that way.
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Post by cj on Dec 18, 2014 8:11:51 GMT -5
The last play of yesterday's Loser Bowl between NYJ-Ten ended with Ten trying a bunch of laterals to free up somebody and almost succeeded as the last Ten player was tackled by the last Jet defender at the 8 and time was then out as the play began with 1 second left. All well and good. But the very last lateral may well have gone forward (the announcer said it had). If indeed upon review today at Park Avenue, the crew will be dinged, right? The last lateral WAS a forward pass, and is worth one position in the draft. The grading is going to take into account everyone's position on the play. HL is trailing by about a yard and a half, just by the nature of the play unfolding. LJ could give some support. I think the officiating department is okay with letting that run, because you give the runners the benefit if you can't definitively tell. Dings don't get reversed by replay. Reversals are not automatic dings. Circumstances prevail. Entire crews are not dinged on a play unless there is a rules misapplication. If the HL was way out of position, and the forward toss could have been better discerned, then maybe you get a downgrade. From my chair, the most definitive call I could make in the live action was "probably," but nothing I would shut the play down for. But, it was definitely an illegal forward pass. I just think for bookkeeping purposes, the play should have been reviewed anyway either while the officials were on the field or later on and the correction made.
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Post by theglenn on Dec 18, 2014 8:14:03 GMT -5
Yet in listening to Boomer & Carton on WFAN this morning, apparently Mike Carey on Inside the NFL agreed with Hochulhi and claimed he would have made the call. Now I didn't see the show, I'm just reporting what I think I heard Boomer say. There is some speculation and I did hear Mike Periera say it in one interview that the competition committee is considering making that type of call reviewable in the future now that they have the replay working properly and efficiently with New York making the final call on these things. Hope to see it in the future done that way. Totally agree they should be reviewable. ESPECIALLY when the call is H2H or shot to head and it can be seen one way or the other.
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