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Post by FredFan7 on Oct 2, 2011 19:39:01 GMT -5
Giving this call its own thread. "Giving himself up." It looks like a bad call. Who ruled that? Steratore? Deep wing? Line of scrimmage wing? Umpire? I think a review of down by contact is very applicable here. As an official, it hurts to see (what looks to me like) a big error made. Please be mindful of BTFS rules while posting about this call. bit.ly/qXHLnZ |
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Post by mike on Oct 2, 2011 19:47:24 GMT -5
Looking at the first angle it is actually a much closer play than initially thought especially if you consider the definition of giving oneself up as posted in the other thread. Is it possible he saw the guy coming and went to the turf because he made no attempt to advance
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Post by I've been warned on Oct 2, 2011 20:19:14 GMT -5
So, the error lies with whomever ruled "Giving himself up," and not the fact that such a ruling is not reviewable. Somebody goofed...
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Post by cj on Oct 2, 2011 21:38:13 GMT -5
Watching the half time show on SNF, Tony Dungy emphatically said he stumbled head first foward and that therefore he was not giving himself up. Eli Manning said the same thing' he thought it was a fumble and therefore hurried to the line to beat the challenge (he almost did) of course Periera said it was a fumnble so I really don't think there's much doubt it's a blown call. Now we'll see if the NFL issues any sort of statement.
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Post by FredFan7 on Oct 2, 2011 22:58:26 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2011 23:22:52 GMT -5
And this is why Carl Johnson needs to do what MP did for years on Official Review and explain the call. But it sounds like he doesn't want to do that anymore.
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Post by cj on Oct 3, 2011 2:04:09 GMT -5
At the end of his take using Fred's link above, Periera makes the point it comes down to judgment, the rule is a tad vague as it doesn't really define what is meant by a runner giving himself up, and that he believes the league will come out and back the call! Remember just what a breath of fresh air Periera was in all this. Under McNally and Seeman no matter how bad a call was, they didn't think the public had any right to know, it was always the would apologize to the teams but teams were ordered to keep these apologies confidential or face fines. Many years ago, say in the 1960's, at least in the other 3 major sports, the officials were allowed to meet with the media to discuss calls. Only the NFL tried to keep it in house. But that has changed completely today although in mlb at least during the playoffs, they make the umpire available, if he so desires, to explain his version of what happened. Thus wehen Doug Eddings made that ridiculous call in the White Sox Angels game a few years ago, he was allowed in the interview room. He was there with the crew chief who was Jerry Crawford and some major league baseball umpire executive (I think it was somebody named Perl). Eddings tried to explain it was his mechanics, the way he called a third strike and that he had the ball on the ground. Didn't really tell us anything but at least he met the press. For the most part you just didn't get this openess in the NFL until Periera came along and while the best you can get is a pool reporter asking the referee his version of controversial calls, we got a dose of what went wrong on official review. After all, it ain't brain surgery.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2011 7:52:52 GMT -5
Remember it's not the end of the playoffs were Bergman. Last year Triplette managed to award two teams 9 yard first downs and still got into the playoffs.
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Post by plbell627 on Oct 3, 2011 7:58:25 GMT -5
NFL spokeman Greg Aiello went on Twitter and explained the rule, but that still doesn't make the call right. Someone needs to find out who ruled gave himself up.
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Post by FredFan7 on Oct 3, 2011 8:01:30 GMT -5
I think it was HL91, Jerry Bergman, Jr.
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Post by mike on Oct 3, 2011 8:10:12 GMT -5
Actually I am not so sure anymore if it was Bergman or someone else. On one clip (I forget if it was a Youtube of the Fox feed or NFL Network) it looks like Bergman is pointing to the turf like you would on a Down by Contact call and I do not see him blowing a whistle. The angle most favorable to the runner was if you were behind him because you could see him glance in both directions before the "slide." That makes me think it is possible that Boger or Paganelli saw something that supplemented what Bergman saw
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Post by zebrablog on Oct 3, 2011 13:29:56 GMT -5
Sliding is not the only criteria for declaring oneself down. In the rulebook, under 7-2-1, is the citation of item (e) in the list is relevant to this play, cited by all the media. Sliding to end a play is contained in item (d) of that list. (The list goes (a) through (r) -- maybe a fun quiz for the offseason.)
A knee is also an acceptable surrender technique, but it is not limited to that. A player who fields an onside kick usually flops to the ground so as to avoid a muff/fumble.
I think that the ruling of Cruz being downed was a bit quick in my opinion, but on that judgment call, there is nothing to dispute the ruling. It is in the same league as forward progress.
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Post by FredFan7 on Oct 4, 2011 10:12:21 GMT -5
Carl Johnson backs the officials' call. This sounds like the Tuck Rule = the rule was enforced properly, but was it REALLY giving himself up? It's a judgement call, the Boss says the officials got it right, but I think the debate over the rule will continue. bit.ly/qEbYLa |
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Post by JugglingReferee on Oct 4, 2011 10:36:23 GMT -5
The CFL has a similar rule. It's a judgment call.
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Post by cj on Oct 4, 2011 10:42:54 GMT -5
This of cours where official review would come in
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