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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2012 21:03:52 GMT -5
Jim Harbaugh today told Matt Maiocco of CSN Bay Area that the forward progress called by Hittner was like the tuck rule. www.csnbayarea.com/blog/niners-talk/post/Harbaugh-compares-no-fumble-call-to-tuck?blockID=636832&feedID=5884I love what Harbaugh is doing for my 49ers, but boy can he complain. I really wish, as I said last night, that Hittner waited for like another second like they had been all night to stop forward progress, and let replay if needed sort this out. All night there was about 2-3 seconds of movement after wrap up before FP was called, and this time he called it almost instantly. FWIW, it's still FP in my mind, just wish he held his whistle a second longer
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Post by FredFan7 on Jan 23, 2012 21:36:31 GMT -5
Harbaugh is like John Gruden or Marv Leavy. He can coach up a team, but he is a real pain in the neck when it comes to the officials.
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Post by cj on Jan 23, 2012 23:01:50 GMT -5
....but then again Fred, isn't it the nature of professional sports as played in our country (and most others too) that as the late Vine Lombardi once said, "Winning isn't an important thing. It is the only thing." These games are so close that one call, which could go one way or the other as so manhy of them are so microscopically close can make all the difference. They got the Lee Evans call right, but it was very very close and in supedr slow motion, an argument could be made they didn't. Earlier this season, there was a call involving Victor Cruz in the Giants game in Arizona where he put the ball on the ground and got the benefit of what some considered a dubious call that he had given himself up. If that one call goes the other way, the Giants don't win that game and they don't make the playoffs and the outlook of their fans and the writers is completely different. True, we can do that with any team.
Yet because the season is so short in terms of number of games, any call can determine the outcoe of a season and the coaches are in a pressure cooker situation from start to finish. The officials, like it or not, of the NFL take on that burden when they become officials. It's all part of our psyche of professional sports which goes like this, "It's not how you play the game that matters, it's whether you win or lose." And like it or not, in some cases, an official's call one way or the other can decide the outcome. This is something officials just have to live with and accept.
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Post by FredFan7 on Jan 23, 2012 23:09:47 GMT -5
They are the best in the world a letting abuse roll off their backs.
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Post by BTFS Admin on Jan 24, 2012 0:08:57 GMT -5
When is Hittner supposed to blow the whistle??? Obviously he saw the ball carrier forced backwards. I'm failing to understand why this is a controversy.
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Post by hank on Jan 24, 2012 2:31:49 GMT -5
When is Hittner supposed to blow the whistle??? Obviously he saw the ball carrier forced backwards. I'm failing to understand why this is a controversy. I believe the controversy stems from: - Bang-Bang play where whistle was blown after ball was out (timed at 1/3 of second after by members of the media).
- A play like Manning made in Super Bowl 42 could have been blown dead by quick whistle but wasn't and arguably the greatest play in the annals of professional football followed.
- The likes of Walter Payton, Barry Sanders, Adrian Peterson, and other great ball players that took exception to initial hits and made something out of nothing on a patient whistle.
Regardless, Hittner made a gutsy, without-a-doubt, on the spot call and that is what every player, coach, owner, and fan wants. It reminded me of the Sunday night, week 10 Stabile call at Indy on the 4th and 2 in 2009. It's good football, let it be controversial.
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Post by tuckerewell on Jan 24, 2012 2:34:52 GMT -5
As I watched the play in real time, my thought was that the whistle was very quick. I can't stand Harbaugh's antics but I think he has a legitimate gripe. When should've Hittner blown the whistle? When the play was complete. The whistle came almost at impact of tackler on runner. Bradshaw was being tackled but he wasn't down. Go back and look at all the plays during the playoffs or even the regular season, where forward progress was stopped and the runner/receiver was pushed backward. Most plays of this type, particularly with no QB involved, get played out much longer. Just because a player is stood up doesn't always mean he's tackled and often when it appears forward progress has been stopped, second effort improves the gain. Every play has it's own identity and however favorable to either offense or defense, the play needs to be completed. This play was cut short.
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Post by I've been warned on Jan 24, 2012 5:31:20 GMT -5
Jim Harbaugh today told Matt Maiocco of CSN Bay Area that the forward progress called by Hittner was like the tuck rule. www.csnbayarea.com/blog/niners-talk/post/Harbaugh-compares-no-fumble-call-to-tuck?blockID=636832&feedID=5884I love what Harbaugh is doing for my 49ers, but boy can he complain. I really wish, as I said last night, that Hittner waited for like another second like they had been all night to stop forward progress, and let replay if needed sort this out. All night there was about 2-3 seconds of movement after wrap up before FP was called, and this time he called it almost instantly. FWIW, it's still FP in my mind, just wish he held his whistle a second longer Hittner was correct to rule forward progress stopped and Coleman was correct in 2002 when he applied the tuck rule. Harbaugh clearly doesn't understand either play. I can certainly understand why he doesn't LIKE them very much, but both were called correctly. Hittner isn't the type of official (never has been nor will he ever be) that waits to use replay as a crutch in a critical situaiton.
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Post by mike on Jan 24, 2012 6:17:01 GMT -5
As we have seen from dubious calls of plays standing after review because there is no clear answer either way due to lack of camera angles I like that an official right on top of the play makes a call and is not talked out of it. Especially when you have an official in the Top 3 of his position and one that is consistently ranked highly and not, say, Steve Wilson, that is going to get more deference from me (even if it probably shouldn't)
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Brent
Division I White Hat
Posts: 164
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Post by Brent on Jan 24, 2012 11:47:24 GMT -5
One small side note here, I don't think that review can rule that progress was stopped prior to a fumble, rather only if the player was down by contact prior to the ball coming loose, so waiting and letting reply sort it out like some have suggested in some articles I have read would not have come with the correct ruling of progress being stopped. This was a good call, fairly cut and dry by the rules, his progress was stopped by the defender causing the ball to become dead at that spot, whistle or no whistle.
I disagree with Tuckerwell that the QB pays are allowed to continue. The reason there is because the force that caused to player (QB) to go backwards is usually the QBs own actions (running back away from the defender) and thus, the defense did not stop forward progress. In these cases, the defender is the one who initiates the backwards movement, thus, the moment that happens the play is dead. If a player runs backwards on his own to break a tackle, that is not progress being stopped and he can break free. But if he is driven backwards by the defense, then his progress is stopped and the ball should be placed at the spot.
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Post by tuckerewell on Jan 24, 2012 14:02:38 GMT -5
I said plays NOT involving a QB, are often allowed to play out longer.
Also the feeling among many in the NFL is that the application of the tuck rule in the infamous game was a travesty. The subject came up this week several times with different writers, players and coaches on the 10th anniversary of the game. Tom Brady wouldn't even touch the subject in a recent interview where it was brought up. I've read Pereira has voiced a reversal of opinion on his earlier view of the rule and the play. I didn't start this post or even bring up the subject of the game. I disagree with MD Hutton's post above saying it was the right call.
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Post by zebrablog on Jan 24, 2012 14:34:03 GMT -5
Forward progress is there to (among other things) prevent injury. When a runner is pulled backwards and is on his heels, he will not regain his footing. Prolonging the play subjects a player to injury, particularly when he's less able to defend himself. Also keep in mind that decisiveness is part of the regular-season evaluation and padded to the objective score. The top 3 officials don't wait when they are certain in their call.
Personally, if Hittner had waited to blow the whistle, I think the furor would have been exponentially worse.
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Post by BTFS Admin on Jan 24, 2012 20:12:33 GMT -5
I think we're taking a gray issue and trying to make it black and white.
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Post by boonevol on Jan 24, 2012 22:27:22 GMT -5
Forward progress really isn't really that hard of a call to make. Once the runner is stopped and begins to go backward, he has reached forward progress. The runner in this case was not making any effort to struggle away.
The key to remember is the whistle rarely kills the play, it's already a dead ball. This play to the whistle mantra is coach-speak. Its got no basis in rule.
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Post by hank on Jan 24, 2012 23:35:36 GMT -5
How boring would our site be if we all agreed?
Boonevol,
I hope you continue to post and add your thoughts; your clarity is appreciated.
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