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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2012 20:43:52 GMT -5
Why don't they get the real refs back & quit worrying about trying to cover up this garbage. I've always felt that every play in agame is as important as the next...otherwise you compromise the integrity. Even in the early games soooo many missed calls throughout the game that you can't tell what would have happened if...! The amount of missed calls downfield today were mostly evened out by the ridiculous amount of holding. Yea, Yea, I know the real refs miss some too, only the scabs miss 3 or 4 times the amount consistently. GB & SF was an absolute poster child for how much the officials can destroy what should be a great game to watch. Not to mention the meltdown in Ariz with the 4 TO's & then the lie to cover it up! For what it's worth, my definition of "egregious" is when the quality of the officals work underminds the integrity of the game...not just a botched call that the media or common fan recognizes in the final minute. That said, I agree completely with Becky's comment earlier today--"depressing." ps-just while posting...scabs actually miss delay of game in Denver...that's a real tough one!
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Post by mike on Sept 9, 2012 20:49:44 GMT -5
Well if the real refs would accept what the NFL is asking which includes a pay raise for a job that for most officials is a second job (and one that pays more than most people make in their first job) we would have them back
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2012 20:57:09 GMT -5
I saw that it would cost each team 6 thousand a game to end the standoff...they spend more than that on tailgate parties! Interesting how "working folks" take the position that refs are asking for too much. If your jobs are like mine, it's some greedy bosses/executives who are constantly trying to squeeze the employees so they can make a few more million...how much more caviar can you eat!?
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Post by zebrablog on Sept 9, 2012 21:13:49 GMT -5
The 12-man penalty should not have been called, because there should have been an illegal snap penalty. The U has to be in position, and Manning did not give him enough time to do so. The side judge didn't see the 12th man at the snap, because his back was to the snap. pbs.twimg.com/media/A2ZTGnBCMAEofNg.jpgThis is not the first time he's turned his back on the play. Here is an image I grabbed last week and turns out to be the same guy! (Guy Trawick, that is.) pbs.twimg.com/media/A1mcIlDCEAAn_Gq.jpg
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Post by sullim4 on Sept 9, 2012 22:02:42 GMT -5
I'll give him credit for admitting the mistake but it was a completely unacceptable one to make. If it were McAulay or Hochuli that made this mistake, they'd be crucified and rightly so. The NFL had better be counting their lucky stars that it had no impact on the game.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2012 22:03:05 GMT -5
challenging a play after another has been run? welcome back to bottlegate 2001 where terry mcaulay and the cleveland browns made a mockery of the nfl.
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Post by zcr57 on Sept 9, 2012 22:03:53 GMT -5
Here we go with more controversy as the referee grants Pittsburgh a challenge even though no one stopped play before the ball was snapped. Good thing this call will stand...
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Post by FredFan7 on Sept 9, 2012 22:12:54 GMT -5
Arizona vs. Seattle final 30 seconds........This whole sequence makes ALL Officals look bad Some video. I don't subscribe to the idea that the replacements "lied" about the situation - the officials just mis-applied the rule: deadsp.in/NjBvtsMore comprehensive video: bit.ly/P6KvR8
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Post by BTFS Admin on Sept 9, 2012 22:51:49 GMT -5
I'll give him credit for admitting the mistake but it was a completely unacceptable one to make. If it were McAulay or Hochuli that made this mistake, they'd be crucified and rightly so. The NFL had better be counting their lucky stars that it had no impact on the game. Agreed. The damage has already been done even if the referee has to check with supervisors/replay on correct number of time-outs...both teams are already resting until the ready-for-play whistle.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2012 22:53:07 GMT -5
my opinions on today's refs: SF-GB: hands down the worst. Bad Personal Fouls, bad no-calls, bad phantom calls Car-TB: decently ok, no major errors I remember NO-Wash - a few mechanics (ruled forward progress on a fumble, was right call, but very late, so it looked bad) THose were the only games I saw the majority of. With that being said, after a majority of this first week is over, i really hope by wk 3-4 that we can get the normal referees back. The season can go on with these guys because every team will benefit at some point, and every team will be hurt, but I'd much rather want the Steratores, Hochulis, etc back. Heck, I'll even take Cheffers at this point, and he's 17th on my list
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Post by sullim4 on Sept 9, 2012 23:58:19 GMT -5
From the games I saw today...
These guys aren't qualified to call much more than a false start or offside. Many of the more subtleties are being missed - offensive holding, blocks in the back on returns, and offsetting penalty rules. There were quite a few delay of game penalties I saw where the officials took a long time to spot the ball and failed to reset the play clock, something that would be automatic if the regular guys were out there.
If this continues, it is only a matter of time before a badly blown call will affect the outcome of a game. NFLRA officials blow calls all the time but they are usually judgment-related or very close plays, and very rarely something like a rule misinterpretation. Fans complain but usually it's an accepted part of the game. Fans, gamblers in Vegas, and coaching staffs will have a legitimate beef if one of these replacements gives a team 5 downs, 4 timeouts, or misapplies a penalty enforcement.
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Post by intheknow on Sept 10, 2012 8:28:33 GMT -5
Well if the real refs would accept what the NFL is asking which includes a pay raise for a job that for most officials is a second job (and one that pays more than most people make in their first job) we would have them back Mike, what does the fact that they work another job have to do with what they are wanting to be paid? The pay is commensurate with their scrutiny and responsibility. It doesn't matter that some in America are HS dropouts or not working in a field that they absolutely love. As I've said before, just because being an official in the NFL "pays more than most people make in their first job" to quote you is irrelevant. Maybe most people who make less should have started officiating many years ago as a hobby, which didn't always pay more than "most people make in their first job." I don't know what you do for a living, but I bet you had a choice to be a doctor, a lawyer, an actor, but maybe not a professionally gifted athlete? NFL players make a lot of money, NFL owners and other front office personnel make a lot of money, why shouldn't NFL officials make a lot of money? It is a SKILLED TRADE. Just because they have jobs outside of officiating (which I'm sure they busted their butts to achieve also), why should they just be grateful for the crumbs of a pay raise that the NFL offers?
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Post by mike on Sept 10, 2012 9:14:09 GMT -5
A 5-11% pay raise is crumbs? Sure they are under a lot of scrutiny but if they cannot stand the heat get out of the kitchen and officials from other sports are paid nowhere near what NFL officials had in their now expired contract when looking at responsibility, hours worked, ability to hold another job, etc. MLB umpires frequently work as much as 7 games per week during a season that stretches from February to late October/early November (Spring Training until end of playoffs). Even though they do get contractually allowed vacation time, what profession is going to hire someone who realistically can work at most 3 months full time (plus 5 weeks during the season)? Unless you are working for a big law firm or are a named partner at a successful smaller firm, most lawyers make less than 6 figures in this economy. I know many who actually are in other professions because the job market is so flooded with people canned from large firms when they shut down that they had to find jobs in other fields despite spending $120,000 for Law School on top of debt from college. Front office personnel and team owners have far more responsibility than NFL officials and are working insane hours year round. In the case of front office personnel their job security is much less than NFL officials. A couple of bad seasons and suddenly a guy goes from set to life to fired. How many NFL officials have been fired in recent years for poor performance? Tom White, Eddy Powers, and Steve Wilson are the only ones that come to mind in recent memory. Only among NFL officials can someone be in the bottom quarter of their position and still receive an onfield playoff assignment. In fact, I believe only 1 Referee who was healthy all season last year did not receive an onfield assignment or an Alternate (Jerome Boger - and this was not the first time that has happened to Boger). If NFL officials want to be paid like officials in other sports they need to accept the other aspects that come with that
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Post by FredFan7 on Sept 10, 2012 9:50:01 GMT -5
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Post by intheknow on Sept 10, 2012 9:55:30 GMT -5
Mike,
MLB umps are not working 7 games per week, they might work 4. Just because baseball is played 7 days a week, doesn't mean there are umps working that much, and if so, it's not frequent as you said in your above post. The veteran umps in addition to making close to $400K per year also have 5 weeks of vacation. Why would someone need five weeks of vaca for a 7 month gig? Not to mention that MLB doesn't generate near the revenue of the NFL.
The original point of my reply to your post was that it is irrelevant what NFL officials do in their other professions. Being an NFL official as has been aptly demonstrated is a skilled trade, that just ANYONE cannot do or perform to the expectations of players, owners, and league personnel. Let's face it, these scabs suck and to make the case that just because there are officials who make money in their chosen professions shouldn't be able to make more in a secondary career field, one in which they have invested years of their lives, much sacrifice from time with family and CAREERS is ludicrous. Look at people who work on Wall Street. When their companies are making billions of dollars, their pay is commensurate. In reading your original post and your reply to my rebuttal, it's apparent you do not know anyone who works as an NFL official or have any type of idea what sacrifices have been made for them to make it to that level. For the scrutiny, and the league having say in where you can and cannot go; what you can and cannot do deserves pay commensurate with the accountability at such a high level.
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