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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2012 20:19:43 GMT -5
This is a sad day for the NFL and becoming sad for all officials in all sports. Hopefully they get the real officials back ASAP...before it's too late.
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Post by JAYJAYSTRIPES on Sept 16, 2012 20:22:33 GMT -5
Detroit/S.F. Play clock expired, they let play go and call DPI on the pass play? Since when is RUNNING into the kicker a 5yd penalty and AUTOMATIC FIRST DOWN? I thought it's 5 yds. period! If it's short yardage and results in a first down then so be it! This R called it an Automatic First Down! Crew seems to be fumbling on any penalty, milling around like they're in a fog. I'm going to bed, wake me when it's over.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2012 20:52:30 GMT -5
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Post by FredFan7 on Sept 16, 2012 20:56:19 GMT -5
DeSean Jackson and Carey Williams scrap in Philadelphia and the replacements do a pretty good job breaking them up. Should have put a man on Jackson to get him away from the Ravens' bench, but overall a pretty good job. bit.ly/Oz2h2B
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Post by zcr57 on Sept 16, 2012 21:37:34 GMT -5
DeSean Jackson and Carey Williams scrap in Philadelphia and the replacements do a pretty good job breaking them up. Should have put a man on Jackson to get him away from the Ravens' bench, but overall a pretty good job. bit.ly/Oz2h2BSome of these games are turning into episodes of Jerry Springer. These crews are completely losing control of games, and it's just a matter of time before we have an all-out bench-clearing brawl or two on our hands. Most of these guys look like deer in the headlights out there. There should have been multiple ejections after this altercation. Get the real crews back on the field, and get them back on the field NOW.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2012 22:00:00 GMT -5
I have little or nothing to argue with on this thread but it is clearly apparent that the NFL is set in concrete on this thing and is not willing to move. a lot of frustration today but if the NFL is willing to accept what we have seen to date the NFLRA will need to make some serious concessions....and soon
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2012 23:42:47 GMT -5
I have little or nothing to argue with on this thread but it is clearly apparent that the NFL is set in concrete on this thing and is not willing to move. a lot of frustration today but if the NFL is willing to accept what we have seen to date the NFLRA will need to make some serious concessions....and soon I'm not convinced. Seems to me that the shenanigans in today's games can only make the NFL's position weaker, going forward. Of course, it's a negotiation - they'll look like concrete in public until the bitter end.
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Post by sullim4 on Sept 17, 2012 0:39:38 GMT -5
Some of these complaints are pretty common even when the regulars are out there. Missed or phantom holding, DPI, illegal contact, etc. I personally am not that concerned about those outside of the egregious calls.
To me there are far larger problems where there is a clear quality difference:
- Ball spots have universally been poor. I tend to think this may be partially due to the fact that the HLs and LJs are used to having the U in the old position behind the defensive line helping them spot the ball at the end of the play. One or two of these isn't bad but in sum it can cost a team 10+ yards and a few first downs by the end of the game. - Misapplication of rules. For instance SEA's 4 timeouts last week or this week where the R in the KC/BUF game forgot that intentional grounding results in a loss of down, and his crew had to correct him. - The game is administered poorly. Bad mic work, long conferences for simple things like false starts, and sloppy mechanics.
Given the situation they were thrust into, I think they are generally doing OK but it is clear that the NFLRA guys are a cut above what's currently out there. One thing I'd be curious about though would be whether or not major-conference D-I officials would fare better out there. There would be an adjustment period for sure but I tend to think if they were the replacements, we'd see much better quality out there than we are right now.
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Post by mike on Sept 17, 2012 6:17:49 GMT -5
sullim most of the bad spots I have seen are forward progress calls on passing plays which should not be affected by Umpire positioning. On your next point I think we would see a marked improvement had the league been able to recruit veteran FBS officials who never otherwise would have had a shot at the NFL because if you look for the most part which officials have looked the strongest it has been the ones with FBS experience (Shoulders, Rhone-Dunn)
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Post by cj on Sept 17, 2012 8:25:11 GMT -5
This is a sad day for the NFL and becoming sad for all officials in all sports. Hopefully they get the real officials back ASAP...before it's too late. Indeed it might be so if the officials really care as much about the integrity of the game as they claim they do, why don't they call the Commissionner this morning and tell him they will accept the 401K and let's come in and negotiate everything else. Betcha that will end tis thing immediately.
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Post by cj on Sept 17, 2012 8:30:46 GMT -5
ok guys.....so we agree it wasn't a great week (even Tony Dungy made a point last night of criticizing the NYJ-PIT crew for allowing too much to go on against receivers down field. Given all that, who caves this morning? If neither it will go on. All those blaming the NFL ask yourselves this. If the officials are so into the integrity of the game bit and it is clear the NFL will not move on the pension issue, why don't they (the officials) give on that issue and say let's negotiate the rest while we come back and I suspect that will end this thing immediately. If it continues, how can one not blame the intransigence of the officials no matter how you feel as to just what is going on and what the NFL is willing to accept?
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Post by andrewmccarthy on Sept 17, 2012 10:30:35 GMT -5
So where do you draw the line- the officials don't care about the integrity of the game unless they agree to work for free?
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Post by zebrablog on Sept 17, 2012 10:32:44 GMT -5
why don't they (the officials) give on that issue and say let's negotiate the rest Here is why I think that won't work, and in this case the public statements from both sides have enabled us to connect the dots. The NFL will not negotiate in a manner that we traditionally think of resolving a dispute. The union complained that the league would not negotiate. The NFL did not counter that argument; they confirmed it. The league insists that it put an "aggressively fair" (odd word pairing) proposal on the table and they are not willing to budge. The league proposal was not born out of long meetings and horse trading by both sides. Take it or leave it. The NFL wants the A but not the B in CBA. The union, seeing the league's hardline stance, knew it could not negotiate. So, they sought a third-party mediator. That went nowhere, and it was such a miserable failure, that it has been long abandoned as a means to resolve the lockout. The union even went so far as to file a grievance with the National Labor Relations Board because of failure to negotiate. I've tried to play this aspect 50/50, but the league confirms my assessment by being the proverbial brick wall. The NFL really, really wants out of the pension business. Make it go away by throwing money at it. Take a hit on this CBA to get rid of it completely. The union has a price on how much that is worth them. Negotiate the value of that, count your beans on both sides on the remaining 3 issues, and deal. (Slightly more complicated and lengthy than that, but this is a bulk of the deal-brokering process.) The union has had its hard line as well, but it has shown a willingness to negotiate, as evidenced by the Goodell-Triplette summit. But the NFL used that meeting to make Triplette a passenger pigeon for an incremental increase. From what was made public by the NFL (in their leaked memo) was that there was no negotiation expected, and they were taken aback when the lead negotiator showed up to negotiate (their words: it wasn't "a new floor" to restart negotiations). That said, I would just camp out in midtown Manhattan and make periodic stops at 345 Park seeking to negotiate. (No, not Occupy NFL!) Both sides look bad if there is no meeting, so the union should keep showing persistence, if only to show their willingness to end the stalemate.
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Post by JAYJAYSTRIPES on Sept 17, 2012 10:32:58 GMT -5
Let me repeat a posting I said earlier to cj and others:
Let me throw this out for discussion: I'll be devil's Advocate!
The majority of the group of 120 who are locked out are working professionals, there are some like Ron Winter who has retired after 38 years as a college professor, and I would venture to say the of the rest, they are pretty well set up for retirement. Why then do these guys have to dig in their heels on the retirement issue if they already are taken care of in their "day jobs'? Aren't they trying to "gild the lily"...cut the nonsense guys and get back to work before this whole season becomes one big disaster. Lord Roger doesn't give a hoot about anything but covering his backside and protecting himself and his cronies in the front office...the owners as long as their palms are getting greased could care less either...the fans, they are clueless.
Am I missing something here? Or when is this nonsense going to cease and we get back to real football, the atrocities we saw this week are doing nothing but making the game look like a backyard pickup game.
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Post by FredFan7 on Sept 17, 2012 10:51:54 GMT -5
Washington Times report accuses replacements of losing control of the Rams - Redskins game: bit.ly/RjhEHy
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