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Post by FredFan7 on Apr 15, 2014 22:49:52 GMT -5
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Post by FredFan7 on Apr 16, 2014 8:48:43 GMT -5
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Post by cj on Apr 16, 2014 10:11:45 GMT -5
Those who don't learn from history simply just keep getting themselves into trouble. The decision of mlb to emulate the NFL with the silly challenge system and the use of the just as moronic headsets is what is causing the whole replay system to bog down when it could be done so much more efficiently (as is done by the NHL). Then to top it off, the equivalent of the tuck rule which was designed to take judgment out of when a forward pass begins is repeated with the stupid new interpretation of what is a catch on a transfer of the ball especially at second base on double play grounders. That should not be subject to replay. For decades, we lived with those decisions on the bases and now we are using another person's judgment.
As far as the whole system is concerned, it is absolutely just as moronic as the NFL system and could be handled so much more efficiently without manager's chalolenges (just like the NFL should be done without coach's challenges). 95% of the calls in baseball are obvious. One quick look at these calls shows they are obviously correct. Simply have a replay official at each game on a direct line with NY and with the crew chief through a headset (if the crew chief is working the plate and the headset is cumbersome under the mask, then give the headset to the #2). The replay official is at the game and sees every replay. Almost all the time, there is no need for a replay. If something is close enough to warrant a second look, he pushes a button and a big red light goes on and he tells the man with the headset they're looking at it. The vast majority of these will be resolved in seconds. In a few cases, it might take a minute or two. None of this manager walking out waiting for word form the dugout to challenge or not. None of this garbage sorry you can't challenge, you lost your challenge on an egregeously bad call. Totally efficient, quick. And stop with these interpretations. Replay on black or white calls. Out of safe. Fair or foul. Catch or trap. Home run or spectator interference. They already made one good decision about the neighborhood play. The other thing was, when I went to umpire school decades ago, I was taught on a tag play on the bases, if the ball clearly beats the runner and it is handled cleanly, the runner is out. When fielders start breaking their hands putting their hands into the path of oncoming spikes, then maybe good sense will reign.
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Post by FredFan7 on Apr 16, 2014 22:49:55 GMT -5
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Post by FredFan7 on Apr 16, 2014 22:52:50 GMT -5
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Post by FredFan7 on Apr 18, 2014 8:52:54 GMT -5
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Post by FredFan7 on Apr 18, 2014 8:54:02 GMT -5
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Post by cj on Apr 18, 2014 18:58:13 GMT -5
Okay guys...I have now seen the first manifestation that baseball is a continuing action sport and a replay can of worms.
Situation: Last of the second inning Braves at Mets. Two out man on first. Batter hits a ground ball in the second base hole. Braves second baseman comes up with it throws to first and on a bang bang play, the calls is out at first, inning over. Meanwhile the Mets runner on first had rounded second and was headed for third. Seeing the out call at first, he slows up. Braves first baseman throws the ball to third and runner is tagged out for for 4th out of the inning.
But wait a second. Mets manager comes out with the stall waiting for the word from his replay man. And the replay seems to show the batter beat the throw and the call should have been safe at first. Now what. Do the Mets challenge and what happens if the challenge is upheld? The umpires confer and the Mets decide not to challenge evidently being told they would call the guy out at third because the apparent 4th out is now the 3rd out. But he slowed up and well might have made it to third based on the call at first.
So...now do we not slow up and play everything out despite the calls onthe field (which was the objuection when it was decided to allow NFL challenges on the call down by contact as it was felt players would play through the whistle(. We'll probably get an explanation from mlb but herein lies a problem with replay in baseball. Personally don't know what is right. Any thoughts pending an explanation from mlb.
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Post by cj on Apr 18, 2014 19:43:49 GMT -5
Just to follow up. As it stands now, Harang of the Braves has a no hitter going. Yet if the Mets had challenged that call above, it is probably oveturned as the Met runner looked safe. One can see the iron of ironies here about that, can't we? They also discussed the play further and while mlb still hasn't explained anything, apparently it is up to the command center to decide where to place the runner. They could have awarded him second, awarded him third or called him out anyway. Also if they called him out, does Collins lose his challenge (you know the same in the NFL if you challenge a spot and they move the ball up but it isn't a first down, it is recorded as a blown challenge). This will be something that has to be thrashed out. Or players will have to be instructed to play everything out on the bases even if the apparent third out has been recorded and fielders will have to play everything out also. Only took a couple of weeks for this to come up.
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Post by FredFan7 on Apr 18, 2014 23:08:00 GMT -5
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Post by cj on Apr 19, 2014 0:21:49 GMT -5
That was a ludicrous call. For a century, the proper call oon that play was out and dropped on the transfer and that is the proper call. For mlb to take it on itself to change a long time rule interpretation just to take judgment out of the replay process is similar to the NFL pushing the tuck rule so there is no judgment on when a forward pass begins instead of relying on experienced umpires to make a judgment. Look, I'm a fan of replay to correct egregeous errors but we're seeing all the pitfalls of it. Like this transfer rule. Or when is an out completed on a force play, when the ball enters the fielder's glove or when it hits the backs of the glove. The whole thing has been so mishandled but then I'm tired of complaining about it.
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Post by cj on Apr 19, 2014 0:28:34 GMT -5
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Post by FredFan7 on Apr 19, 2014 15:55:49 GMT -5
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Post by FredFan7 on Apr 20, 2014 19:07:31 GMT -5
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Post by mike on Apr 21, 2014 5:26:53 GMT -5
Actually it may have been the umpires that screwed up. That play was actually reviewable and since there was evidence that Duda had slowed up after the out call the umpires could have placed him back at 2nd base and it would have been 1st and 2nd with 2 outs had Terry Collins won the challenge
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