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Post by cj on Oct 3, 2011 15:45:09 GMT -5
I've watched the play (Sanchez) again today.....the ball did come forward and was not struck by the Baltimore defender. I think he blew the call even on the replay..it looked to me that Sanchez still had the ball the instant his hand started forward....
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Brent
Division I White Hat
Posts: 164
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Post by Brent on Oct 3, 2011 16:43:41 GMT -5
I've watched the play (Sanchez) again today.....the ball did come forward and was not struck by the Baltimore defender. I think he blew the call even on the replay..it looked to me that Sanchez still had the ball the instant his hand started forward.... I watched this a few times last night, and I think that if he ruled incomplete that would have stood via replay, and ruling fumble also stood during replay. There was no CLEAR evidence to overturn. This is one of those bang bang judgement calls that when really close can go either way. These guys make split second decisions and really, if we have to go frame by frame to see what really happened, how can we blame Carey for ruling one way at full speed. All in all I don't think it was a horrible play. I do however thing that missing that roughing the punter penalty is inexcusable. He's really defenseless at that point. That's the main assignment for the White Hat on those plays. one a side note, did anyone see the New England Vs. Oakland game where Seymour apparently did not hear the whistle for delay of game and threw Brady to the ground, earning a flag. Good call, but don't you think that all of the officials should blast their whistles so that type of thing does not happen on that play? having the deep man blow it in a loud environment, sure I could see Seymour not hearing that. But on the CBS coverage, it sounded like that was the only whistle...
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Post by zebrablog on Oct 3, 2011 21:10:35 GMT -5
the ball did come forward and was not struck by the Baltimore defender That is not the definition of a forward pass. Sanchez had an empty hand moving forward, therefore, he did not put any impetus toward making it a forward pass, rather it was due to him being crumpled by the defender. That makes it a forward fumble, not a pass. (You have to see some recognizable forward movement prior to being hit, because your arm naturally moves as a result of being hit.) Interesting side note: If Sanchez's arm was moving forward, and the defender knocked the ball backwards, it is still counted as a forward pass.
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Post by hank on Oct 3, 2011 22:58:45 GMT -5
one a side note, did anyone see the New England Vs. Oakland game where Seymour apparently did not hear the whistle for delay of game and threw Brady to the ground, earning a flag. Good call, but don't you think that all of the officials should blast their whistles so that type of thing does not happen on that play? having the deep man blow it in a loud environment, sure I could see Seymour not hearing that. But on the CBS coverage, it sounded like that was the only whistle... Brent, I was down on the field - it was ridiculously loud. Even the play before Seymour's RTP penalty, a NE wr continued running after he was rolled to the ground because he too did not hear the whistle. A concern I have on a play like this is why Corrente and Bryan did not move to place themselves in between the rusher and the quarterback, especially when: 1) both sides had half their players continuing the play, and, 2) the league has responded in earnest to the protection of the quarterback. Both officials looked as if they were standing in wet concrete.
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Post by cj on Oct 3, 2011 23:36:52 GMT -5
BTW did the Baltimore defender lead with his helmet on the hit on Sanchez on that play (I've seen stills which show Sanchez still had the ball at the instant of the hit as the arm began forward but I will grant it was very very close....listening to Periera over the years, he always felt if it was that close the official should err by calling it a forward pass but okay there has to be some sort of call but here's my question...how might the referee feel when looking at it under the hood and he sees how blatantly he might have missed the lead with the helmet on the play and can't do a thing about it!
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Post by bulldog6878 on Oct 4, 2011 7:25:17 GMT -5
Grade for the crew is 0.0....you just can't make an error like that at that stage of the game...it wasn't even close. tell me about it
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Post by FredFan7 on Oct 4, 2011 13:06:37 GMT -5
Mike Smith and Steve Stjelles conversate:
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Post by bulldog6878 on Oct 4, 2011 13:20:21 GMT -5
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Post by FredFan7 on Oct 4, 2011 13:21:52 GMT -5
Cover Your (Butt)
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2011 21:40:25 GMT -5
I saw most of the Baltimore-NYJ game. I too thought it was a pass, not a fumble. It will be interesting to hear what comes from the league office. While I still favor the referee (perhaps with a member of his crew) reviewing the play, it might be good if someone in the office helped the crew on the field out with suggestions that would favor greater consistency among the crews on calls like this. Perhaps it is time for an NFL "war room" of the officiating department a la what the NHL has.
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Post by BTFS Admin on Oct 4, 2011 23:04:00 GMT -5
Here was my running commentary via Twitter on the Sanchez pass/fumble:
"I say fumble."
"I think that's an empty hand on the forward motion of the arm."
"Mike Carey saw what I saw."
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Post by cj on Oct 7, 2011 15:10:49 GMT -5
Well we were right about one thing...Ngata was fined $15,000 for leading with his helmet on the Sanchez hit that led to the controversy empty hand or not. Will probably lead to another downgrade for Carey.
B ut here's my question...how must Carey have felt watching the replay on the challenge when he saw how he had fouled up. In much the same way as the missed roughing the kicker (which had relatively little effect on the game as it would have been off setting penalties and the Jets would have kicked again) perhaps we have to start thinking about other mechanics. In both cases the call was missed because the referee was busy with something else namely the pass/fumble question on Sanchez and the holding call on the punt. I also vaguely remember Scott Green getting into a problem in the New Orleans Green Bay game when there was a roughing call he missed because of some other penalty he called. Obviously the wing official on that side had to see the roughing the passer and the roughing the kicker...perhaps the time has come that they should be instructed to report such infractions to the referee not wait to be asked....
What do you think?
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